Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 346 posts

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#81

Post by standardUser »

beacon294 wrote: post #65
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

An open iPhone compatible is probably the answer here.

Why would anyone downvote this? Would love an explanation. Why not let Apple keep building their wall higher and higher but also let other's emulate and create interoperable alternatives. The best of all worlds.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#82

Post by [deleted] »

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #71

This is a rather misleading headline. The vast majority of developers are not in “open revolt” – just a handful of developers are making a lot of noise about it, while continuing to ship software (ie, not in revolt at all). Further, those developers making great noise are often close to “platform” designation themselves, making their appeal less righteous than a superficial reading might have you believe. It’s a stru…

[deleted]

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#83

Post by graeme »

danielvaughn wrote: post #52
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

I see more symmetry in the relationship between Apple and developers. It's true the platform was created out of thin air, but without the apps in the app store, it's fair to say the iPhone would not have been nearly as successful. All the dedication and work that developers put into their platform has resulted in millions of applications available on their store - that's what gives it it's value. Obviously there's no…

If this is true, why does Android not set their pricing at 5-10% or less, get more developers and outcompete apple?

Google would then pay apple less in search default fees to boot.

Android has been losing market share to apple globally for nearly a decade, in particular amongst the richest, most valuable customers.

Developers are very valuable to apple but the field isn’t obviously unbalanced. The apple App Store is an incredibly profitable distribution system for developers.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#84

Post by snapcaster »

talkingtab wrote: post #69

Apple's actions are anti-competitive. Spotify is a very good example. Instead of making a better product, Apple is acting to appropriate other businesses. Although the object of Apple's action is companies that try to make money that Apple wants, it is the users, the customers who pay. Apple is an anti-user platform. They are not alone in this of course. How do we change this? I, as a user, am aggrieved that Apple se…

I just don't agree that it's an anti-user platform. I have my own opinions on this, but really just talk to some apple users they're all happy with their platform

Why do you have to change it? As a user if you don't like walled gardens or restrictions just buy another phone? why do you insist on shitting up my walled garden just go use android!

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#85

Post by Someone »

Justsignedup wrote: post #50
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

The cut is too universal and not neuanced. If it was a 30% cut on profits, that would make sense, and everyone would grin but deal with it. But if you sell something for a 10% markup, having to give that + 20% to apple is bad. And now people ask "why do I have to pay more for your service on apple vs android". And now you're in a fun PR battle. In cases of say fortnight, there are real server costs involved. Not to m…

> And now people ask "why do I have to pay more for your service on apple vs android". And now you're in a fun PR battle.

Why do you pay more for coffee on a square in Paris than in an alleyway a few hundred meters from there? Because it’s a place people want to be.

> This makes competition vs big boys even harder. How can I compete vs netflix if any streaming service I make who doesn't have netflix's negotiation power has to pay 30% of every payment. I can't get close to netflix's price.

It would be of little help because you need scale to compete with Netflix, but if anything, I would think the DMA helps with that. https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/legislation_en, article 6.12:

“12. The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9).”

I think that means they could still give quantity discounts, but at least, you’d know you would get the same discounts Netflix gets, _if_ you manage to grow to their size. That’s not a promise you had before.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#86

Post by kjreact »

stavros wrote: post #19
riversflow wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Of course he can? "Trusted" doesn't have to mean "trusted by Apple", I want it to mean "trusted by me ". The thing that can't be had here is both Apple being the sole keymaster of the device and the user being the sole keymaster of the device.

Can someone more familiar with iOS app development explain why people can’t just use developer mode on their iOS devices to run untrusted code? Can’t you bypass the App Store entirely with this method?

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#87

Post by darklion »

cdme wrote: post #3

Apple's seeking to comply with the letter, rather than the spirit, of the law in order to maintain their ability to extract rents from the App Store. It's user-hostile (particularly given that they've now hobbled PWAs) but not surprising. Their behavior won't change without additional regulatory action.

> Apple's seeking to comply with the letter, rather than the spirit, of the law in order to maintain their ability to extract rents from the App Store.

Yes, because we can have a functional, productive society based on a legal system where the foundational principal is, “We’ll write laws so vague that we can just say they mean whatever we want them to mean after people and companies try to follow them”.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#88

Post by callalex »

graeme wrote: post #78
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. This is not true at all. Netflix customers are Netflix customers, not Apple; the same goes for Amazon Kindle, Spotify, etc. Netflix literally cannot include a link to netflix.com in their app, otherwi…

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue. The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#89

Post by snapcaster »

sjwhevvvvvsj wrote: post #31

This is a great way to encourage developers to build the app that will show an essential use case for the Vision Pro. It’s not like Vision Pro is a solution in need of a problem, desperately waiting for a killer app, or that apps built the iPhone ecosystem into the juggernaut it is now. Apple doesn’t need developers, right? Right?

I can't even understand your point here. People aren't developing for apple hardware to be nice to apple or help out the ecosystem, they're doing it for money. As long as Apple is creating a platform that people love, adopt and trust people will develop for it (while complaining the whole time no doubt)

By the amount of bitching on this issue, it really sounds like developers need Apple not the other way around. If this was really about user freedom and shit like that developers would just boycott the platform and move to android. This is just about money and developers wanting to have their cake (distribute their app in a high trust environment) and eat it too (put whatever stupid shit they want in their app with no checks or controls)

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#90

Post by acdha »

malermeister wrote: post #14
riversflow wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Nobody's complaining about not having the apple distribution. They're complaining about the scareware popups, designed to hurt businesses that don't pay Apple protection money.

“Scareware” is your editorial take, not an objective assessment, and using that kind of inflammatory language distracts from the fact that there is a real risk to users with online financial fraud as growth industry grossing billions of dollars a year.

https://developer.apple.com/support/apps-using-alternative-p... has a screenshot of the warning in question:

> This app doesn't support the App Store's private and secure payment system.

> All purchases in this app will be managed by the developer "Example." You will no longer be transacting with Apple. Your App Store account, stored payment method, and related features, such as subscription management and refund requests, will not be available. Apple is not responsible for the privacy or security of transactions made with this developer and can't verify any pricing or promotions that are offered.

That really doesn’t seem unfair or scary. Part of the problem here is that we’re seeing the frame picked by someone vocal enough to come to a reporter’s attention and who stands to see considerable financial upside to cutting Apple out of his payment processing stack. That’s a legitimate goal, of course, but I think also clouds his ability to remember that while his motives may be pure, this is a system dialog which has to work for EVERYONE and there will definitely be sleazy companies trying to use the exact same feature, and to a first approximation the scammers will look just like his business from the perspective of a normal user.

Post reply on HN