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Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

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Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#141

Post by [deleted] »

pdonis wrote: post #116
the_solenoid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your takes on this. To me, theres two issues: 1) this push is all driven by big businesses looking to just get free money for nothing, which is why I worry that the EU is so taken up with it. 2) taxes, is you want to line apples 30% up with those, are just part of business. No, you cant write off the 30%, but if you want to keep adding 250million new phones to your potential customer base every year.... wtf, p…

> I am sure Apple and MS would love to do this with desktop, but the ship sailed on that ages ago, and probably wouldnt have ever worked. Charging third party app developers never worked on the desktop, but Microsoft had a lot of success with building the key features of popular third party Windows applications into their own products, thus taking away the third party developers' markets. Which is worse for the third…

[deleted]

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#142

Post by pdonis »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #137
pdonis wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would happen if this had been the standard applied to Windows? Microsoft had no problem taking features from popular third party Windows applications and building them into their own products, basically stealing the third party developers' markets. That looks worse to me than what Apple is doing.

Plese stop repeating this FUD in every reply on this thread, you already posted the exact same comment here[1] and here[2] as well, and I already explained you why it's false. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348035 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348077

It's not FUD, it's historical fact. MS did exactly what I described, repeatedly. PG even commented about it in one of his essays years ago (his comment was that you could invest a lot in developing a third party Windows application and then find out you were just doing market research for Microsoft).

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#143

Post by CharlieDigital »

callalex wrote: post #88
graeme wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue. The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

    > through the simple act of using a phone
Not just using it, but having paid for it.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#144

Post by FirmwareBurner »

pdonis wrote: post #142
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plese stop repeating this FUD in every reply on this thread, you already posted the exact same comment here[1] and here[2] as well, and I already explained you why it's false. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348035 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348077

It's not FUD, it's historical fact. MS did exactly what I described, repeatedly. PG even commented about it in one of his essays years ago (his comment was that you could invest a lot in developing a third party Windows application and then find out you were just doing market research for Microsoft).

Then please post some source for your historical facts.

Plus, Apple did the exact same things.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#146

Post by threeseed »

callalex wrote: post #88
graeme wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue. The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

Because you aren't their property. You just invented that straw man.

And the simple act of using a phone is you making a conscious decision to agree to accept the terms and conditions that come with buying any product. You are in no way forced to and by supporting alternatives you help to change the market for everyone.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#147

Post by FirmwareBurner »

pdonis wrote: post #109
curt15 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. Unless I am misreading somehow, this is an unusual position. Software developers don't sell their software to Apple. They sell to the end users. Unless an intermediary rebrands the software and takes ownership of customer acquisition and support, software users are the customers of the software dev…

> software users are the customers of the software developers Yes, but the users are also customers of the owner of the software platform that the developers are developing for. And the owner of the platform gets to set the platform's rules. Microsoft's standard practice for many years was to watch for which third party Windows applications were becoming popular, and build those features into one of their own product…

Except Apple did exactly what you just said Microsoft did to third party devs, and then also banned their apps off the appstore to boot because they do what their OS now does out of the box, like the famous keyboard for the Apple Watch.[1]

At least Microsoft can't ever ban you from selling Windows apps since you're not forced to use their store to sell to Windows users. Apple's grip of the iOS AppStore can be a poison pill for many devs who's livelyhood depends on Apple's automatic ML ban hammer and arbitrary rules which can change as they see fit with no warning.

https://www.verdict.co.uk/apple-watch-keyboard-app-store/?cf...

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#148

Post by hebrox »

callalex wrote: post #88
graeme wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue. The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

I think an analogy could be made that you’re walking into a market hall because they promoted it. The stall owners will be paying to be part of that. It’s not that you’re property of the market hall, but you’re on their property and they will want to be paid.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#150

Post by lozenge »

the_solenoid wrote: post #91
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

I like your takes on this. To me, theres two issues: 1) this push is all driven by big businesses looking to just get free money for nothing, which is why I worry that the EU is so taken up with it. 2) taxes, is you want to line apples 30% up with those, are just part of business. No, you cant write off the 30%, but if you want to keep adding 250million new phones to your potential customer base every year.... wtf, p…

The difference is taxes are set and disbursed democratically. Apple taxes are whatever they want them to be and are disbursed according to their board.

Heck they could introduce a tax on Amazon deliveries when Amazon is installed through the Apple App Store and nobody would be able to do anything about it. Except the EU that is.

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