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Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

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Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#61

Post by ToucanLoucan »

dmarcos wrote: post #38
romeros wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paraphrase YC/Sama etc. If there is a small grouop of initial users who are obsessively using it and can't get enough of it. Then VP will work and be here to stay. If not, then it is not their time. So, the question is this. If you know anyone who actually got VP. Are they using it obsessively? I got occulus rift a while ago and so did many of my friends. We bought it but never really used it. Like probably a few…

Yeah, Not sure you can call “dominating” at having a unique feature that nobody uses. Time will tell but I think Vision Pro will have similar retention issues to other headsets. Fundamental problems still there (weight, vergence accommodation conflict, isolation…)

I'm not trying to come across as vehemently pro Vision Pro here, I'm genuinely not sure if there's a market for this, but like... I really feel the need to say, this is not like any other headset, just, at all.

On the weight front, it's significantly lighter than a Valve Index, by roughly 20%, and that's just the unit I'm pretty sure, the Index has an umbilical cord that is not-insubstantial in mass by itself that dangles off the back of your head, so already the Vision Pro is quite far ahead on comfort.

VAC is of course a factor in any headset and this really comes down to the per-user situation: I personally got my "VR legs" in about thirty minutes way back when I got started, and am able to use full motion movement pretty well now with only minimal vertigo when things go up and down too fast for my brain's liking. However, the VP is going to have a distinct advantage here with it's big complicated camera system that allows it to operate both in VR and in AR, with most applications seeming to live in the latter realm. I think that's going to lend itself to big comfort gains for people who aren't as blessed as me in that regard.

Isolation also is much improved with the VP, what with it employing again, the camera system, and also the fact that the Vision Pro (much like my Valve Index) doesn't cover or obstruct the ears. And you get those weird CG eyes you can plaster on the front of the thing, haha.

Like again, I don't know if this will work out long term, I'm interested to see if it will really. But I see people keep comparing it to other headsets and as a fervent enjoyer of many of these headsets, I really cannot overemphasize how bad that comparison is.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#62

Post by jedberg »

keepper wrote: post #58
jedberg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple makes a ton of sense. They sell hardware (and services for that hardware). It would make sense that they want to commoditize foundation models while at the same time creating yet another reason to buy their most powerful hardware. Meta is the real wildcard here. They're betting on "commoditize your compliment" and hoping by making GenAI training nearly free (by doing it for you) that none of their competitors c…

Why is Meta the wildcard? Meta has the largest track record of open sourcing everything. From hardware (OpenCompute suite of releases ) to pretty much all software ( HHVM, Hack, Buck, etc etc ) that would benefit wider use. Even Meta's ML research has a history of open sourcing everything, hello PyTorch. So Llama is just a continuation

Only because all their open source didn't cost them billions to produce. Making a foundation model is at least a billion dollars in just hardware and power.

But you're right they do have a good history of open source, and they should get credit for that.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#63

Post by elliotbnvl »

dmarcos wrote: post #40
elliotbnvl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am.

What do you do with it? How often? Is it your first headset?

Primarily using it for software development. I'm a web dev. I'm on day three of all-day usage (~8hrs, with breaks) and my experience has improved with each day, both in terms of comfort and as I get used to visionOS. I have 10 windows open in front of me right now, including my calendars, Slack, Messages, Spotify (in Safari), ChatGPT, a reference browser for documentation, and a few other odds and ends. My main front and center window is my 4k MacBook Pro 16" screen in 1080p (larger than that and the screen is too large for me or the text too small, but I prefer slightly larger text usually).

I've also used it for reading, watching movies, and reminiscing over old photos. Something I don't think that has really been captured well in reviews is how incredible it is to look at life-size recreations of photos you took on your phone, even plain old 2D ones. There's something really special about seeing a photo at life-size scale wherever you want, even if you technically can achieve this with a massive projector. And that's to say nothing of the bittersweet nostalgic nature of spatial video / photos, which has, if anything, been profoundly understated.

It is not my first headset. Previous to the AVP, I owned Quests 1, 2, and 3, and I experienced the Rift before that. I tried, hard, to work all day in each of the Quests as that was my primary use case for them, but flamed out after a couple of hours every time.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#64

Post by ToucanLoucan »

elliotbnvl wrote: post #63
dmarcos wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do with it? How often? Is it your first headset?

Primarily using it for software development. I'm a web dev. I'm on day three of all-day usage (~8hrs, with breaks) and my experience has improved with each day, both in terms of comfort and as I get used to visionOS. I have 10 windows open in front of me right now, including my calendars, Slack, Messages, Spotify (in Safari), ChatGPT, a reference browser for documentation, and a few other odds and ends. My main front…

For my own curiousity: how do you type? As in, does the VP have like a... idk, hologram keyboard or something?

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#65

Post by MBCook »

roody15 wrote: post #33
MBCook wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when they didn’t have that garden. Look at the iPod. Other MP3 players existed, but flash media was too small. Other hard drive players existed, they were too big. And both had bad interfaces (by Apple standards). Apple didn’t show up until they could meet all their goals. They could have made a phone sooner, it wouldn’t have been the iPhone. They could have made a headset sooner, it wouldn’t be the Vision Pro.…

“They could have made a headset sooner, it wouldn’t be the Vision Pro“ Hmm I guess. Vision Pro seems rushed from vantage point. Odd battery pack … only 2 hour charge … limited field of vision. Also the screens that show a picture of your eyes are off putting and strange. Think Apple may have rushed here too quickly. We need more battery life.. think we may be looking more for an Augmented Reality mode which works on…

That’s the tradeoffs they wanted to hit whatever guidelines they had. They clearly didn’t want to ship a 2 pound battery.

What I meant is they didn’t need chips as powerful. They didn’t need screens as high resolution or bright. They didn’t need so many cameras.

They could have released something closer to a Quest model in specs years earlier.

They waited for this.

There are always tradeoffs. First gen Apple stuff is often weak in some way (CPU, memory, battery, software) because they like to be at the edge of what’s possible. Then they improve from there.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#66

Post by elliotbnvl »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #64
elliotbnvl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily using it for software development. I'm a web dev. I'm on day three of all-day usage (~8hrs, with breaks) and my experience has improved with each day, both in terms of comfort and as I get used to visionOS. I have 10 windows open in front of me right now, including my calendars, Slack, Messages, Spotify (in Safari), ChatGPT, a reference browser for documentation, and a few other odds and ends. My main front…

For my own curiousity: how do you type? As in, does the VP have like a... idk, hologram keyboard or something?

It does, but you can connect a Bluetooth keyboard, which is what I do.

Or, if you are using virtual desktop, you can use your mouse and keyboard to control VP natively as well. The only drawback is that this may not work if you are on VPN (even if the desktop comes through OK). I'm hoping this is a software issue that will get straightened out soon.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#67

Post by MBCook »

gnicholas wrote: post #39
MBCook wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when they didn’t have that garden. Look at the iPod. Other MP3 players existed, but flash media was too small. Other hard drive players existed, they were too big. And both had bad interfaces (by Apple standards). Apple didn’t show up until they could meet all their goals. They could have made a phone sooner, it wouldn’t have been the iPhone. They could have made a headset sooner, it wouldn’t be the Vision Pro.…

Things are a bit different now, compared to the iPod. If Microsoft had released a competitor a year or two in advance of the iPod, Apple would have had a much harder time getting traction for their iPod because they didn't have a large walled garden back then. They only had a very small subset of the computer market, and iPods were only compatible with Macs (at first). Apple can afford to be a much later mover, even…

I think people give way way too much credit to the walled garden for their success.

The iPod wasn’t a success because of the walled garden. They didn’t have one (once they released on Windows).

If MS had released a player that was good enough they could have stolen the market, yes. But that’s the point. No one did because everyone released something akin to a flash-based CD player. They didn’t rethink the interface much. The interface is why the iPod grabbed the hold it did.

Yeah it became cool over time.

But I contend an iPod with the interface of a Creative Nomad Jukebox wouldn’t have succeeded the way it did.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#68

Post by filmgirlcw »

rchaud wrote: post #35
ericmcer wrote: post #4

It feels like Apple has been very quiet about their approach in some of the future spaces (self-driving, VR/AR, AI) but then they suddenly burst out with something like Vision Pro. It seems like they are biding their time and avoiding the hype knowing that they don't need to get their first. If they can produce a superior product their brand will let them dominate those markets whenever they decide to release.

> It seems like they are biding their time and avoiding the hype knowing that they don't need to get their first This idea that Apple gets to things late to "perfect them" is an artifact of the iPod/iPhone era. Nothing Apple put out since then has met this bar. Apple does things low-key these days because it has to. Remember the Apple Maps fiasco? A few memes was all it took to send everyone scurrying back to GMaps f…

I’m not at all convinced about the inevitable success of the Vision Pro (which I maintain is in its current form, a dev kit being marketed as a mass-consumer device), but this just isn’t true.

To use a few examples that have happened after Apple Maps:

* The Apple Watch — Apple was at least 2 years behind other smartwatches when it launched in 2015 and now it basically owns the category. The first version wasn’t quite there but they nailed it with the series 2 and the pivot from fashion to fitness.

* AirPods - tons of companies had been trying truly wireless headphones for years. I know, I had tested basically every option commercially available. Although imperfect at launch (and the software got better over time for once here), AirPods from the moment I first used them in September of 2016 was category defining and the absolute best truly wireless earbuds you could get on the market, at any price point — even tho the quality was mid. Even now, you can do better than standard AirPods for the price/performance, but it’s hard to top AirPods Pro 2s unless you want to spend significantly more money and sacrifice ecosystem niceties (assuming you’re an iOS user. And the Venn diagram between people who are willing to spend over $250 on truly wireless earbuds and iPhone users is basically a circle).

What I do think is instructive about the Apple Maps example is that when it does come to services, and I put generative AI in the services camp much more than hardware, is that Apple is not best-in class at services at all. As a package, Apple services can be beneficial, especially if you’re part of the ecosystem - but even tho I pay Apple $38 a month for Apple One Premier, I’m still paying separately for Spotify, Dropbox, OneDrive (part of Office 365 but still), and Netflix (and a bunch of other video services) and I don’t think I could reasonably drop any of those services in-place of just using iCloud/Apple TV/Apple Music, etc. My parents can (except for Netflix/prime video), and Apple services are definitely “good enough” for a lot of people in the ecosystem, but none are best-in-class.

Unclear if they’d be able to be “good enough” to displace other generative AI services here or not, but to your point, Apple Maps still hasn’t gotten over its bad launch. And Siri on the phone is still dog shit. Siri is so bad that I won’t even use it on platforms where it is objectively good, like Apple TV, unless I specifically remember to.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#69

Post by dmarcos »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #61
dmarcos wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Not sure you can call “dominating” at having a unique feature that nobody uses. Time will tell but I think Vision Pro will have similar retention issues to other headsets. Fundamental problems still there (weight, vergence accommodation conflict, isolation…)

I'm not trying to come across as vehemently pro Vision Pro here, I'm genuinely not sure if there's a market for this, but like... I really feel the need to say, this is not like any other headset, just, at all. On the weight front, it's significantly lighter than a Valve Index, by roughly 20%, and that's just the unit I'm pretty sure, the Index has an umbilical cord that is not-insubstantial in mass by itself that da…

I personally don’t think is significantly better (own all the headsets since DK1) in terms of comfort. In some aspects worse. Yesterday had to change clothes to use the AVP because my pajamas don’t have pockets for the battery pack. Each headset has a different set of annoyances. not sure AVP is net positive in comparison.

Wearing a headset / computer on your face is a cost (vs wearing nothing) that the value prop gotta offset. We’ll see if it is a net positive, worth the tradeoff for a significant amount of people. Previous evidence indicates it isn’t.

Re: Apple releases MGIE, an AI-based image editing model

#70

Post by devinprater »

This is going to be really cool. Being able to have pictures described, with AI, and then edit them using text, like underline this part of the screenshot, or something like that. Especially with Llava 1.6, and Apple's other model where it understands spatial parts of images, this should be pretty possible for me, as a blind person, to do. So yeah I think I'll wait to get this September's iPhone.
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