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Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

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Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#81

Post by bumby »

wvenable wrote: post #79
bumby wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you find that definition? The NHTSA definition doesn't have any mention of "returning" a product. They define it as "when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, piece of equipment, car seat, or tire poses an unreasonable safety risk." It's entirely based on risk and a duty to the consumer. It's possible that you're leaning too heavily on the etymology of the word rather than the industry definit…

It's the remedy: "Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle." This required the manufacturer to "recall" the vehicle physically to be repaired, replaced, or returned. That's why they used that word. But clearly that isn't needed for all "recalls" anymore. For an over-the-air software update, the NHTSA should find a better…

I definitely get it, but I just think it's being overly pedantic to try and make the point. The meanings of words change with the culture and I don't think this is an exception. English if rife with examples of colloquial uses that depart from their original meanings.

The word "awful" derives from "inspiring awe."

"Fathom" used to mean "to encircle with one's arms."

"Myriad" used to mean, very specifically, 10,000 instances of an item.

"Hussy" used to mean housewife.

Etc. etc.

In this era, I think most people assume "recall" to mean "a required fix" not necessarily "a trip to the car dealership."

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#82

Post by wvenable »

bumby wrote: post #81
wvenable wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the remedy: "Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle." This required the manufacturer to "recall" the vehicle physically to be repaired, replaced, or returned. That's why they used that word. But clearly that isn't needed for all "recalls" anymore. For an over-the-air software update, the NHTSA should find a better…

I definitely get it, but I just think it's being overly pedantic to try and make the point. The meanings of words change with the culture and I don't think this is an exception. English if rife with examples of colloquial uses that depart from their original meanings. The word "awful" derives from "inspiring awe." "Fathom" used to mean "to encircle with one's arms." "Myriad" used to mean, very specifically, 10,000 in…

I think this entire topic proves your point wrong. The very top comment is exclaiming how insignificant this is compared to the headline.

All the conversation here is a debate of this very issue in one way or another. We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the word "recall" wasn't used. If it was just a called "a required over-the-air fix" it wouldn't have made it on to HN.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#83

Post by bryanlarsen »

deely3 wrote: post #73
gfosco wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a font being a few tenths of a millimeter off spec is a "dangerous defect" ? Let me guess... not a fan of Elon.

Yes. Unreadable font/icon is dangerous during driving.

I'm not so sure it's a safety improvement, though. To make the text bigger, they got rid of the icon.

https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1753249463311691839

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#84

Post by bryanlarsen »

falcolas wrote: post #21
bryanlarsen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the NHTSA did the right thing. The NY Post, on the other hand...

Do you believe NHTSA forcing Tesla to fix a safety issue is not worth calling out, in particular to TSLA shareholders? The solution to many recalls these days is a software update. Cars are becoming computers with wheels...

I don't believe they fixed a safety issue though.

They replaced a brake icon with a "P" inside it with the word "PARK". To me those indicate two different things. The first is obviously the parking brake. Most would think that "PARK" refers to an automatic transmission, which a Tesla doesn't have...

To me this is an example of red tape making things worse.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#85

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

Veserv wrote: post #55
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People assume the absolute worst when they see the word "recall". There's a huge gulf between people that keep up with tech news and people that don't. Millions of people are likely unaware that Tesla cars get software updates at all , let alone over the air. So when they see an article with a headline of "Latest recall at Elon Musk’s Tesla affecting 2.2M vehicles", they assume Tesla owners all over the country are h…

The cars are fundamentally unsafe until fixed. That is what a recall means: there is a safety defect requiring prompt removal of unfixed cars. The manufacturer can avoid refunds by fixing their defective product by creating a new, safe, fixed version and upgrading all owners for free. Whether that can be done remotely is independent of the presence of a safety defect demanding removal of all cars still containing tha…

> The cars are fundamentally unsafe until fixed.

Oh please, get real.

So some icons on the display are a little too small. I would not label that "fundamentally unsafe".

I think of "fundamentally unsafe" and I think of something that has a high likelihood of causing a crash. Icons being just a smaller than they should be do not fit that description.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#86

Post by belltaco »

nickthegreek wrote: post #9
throwaway-blaze wrote: post #5

We need a term other than "recall" for minor software changes. The headline makes it sound like 2.2mm vehicles are going to be scheduling service appointments to fix this.

Good thing we are capable of reading beyond the headline. Recall once again is the correct word here. Every single time Tesla gets a recall (kinda often aint it?) there are people in HN comments who just want to fight over a word. There are federal safety standards and Tesla is not implementing them correctly, NHTSA issues a recall, full stop.

> Good thing we are capable of reading beyond the headline

People don't read articles on tech forums like this so frequently that RTFA is a common meme.

> Every single time Tesla gets a recall (kinda often aint it?) there are people in HN comments who just want to fight over a word

You only think it's often because the other ones don't get reported on HN, creating the false impression.

> According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Ford issued 55 safety recalls in 2023, down from 67 last year. The repair campaigns affected 5.9 million vehicles, down from 8.6 million in 2022, which put the automaker in second place for the total number of vehicles recalled. Honda’s 19 recalls affected 6.3 million cars.

> Chrysler issued the second-highest number of recalls, at 45. Kia came in third for the total number of recalled cars, with more than 3 million affected by its 20 repair campaigns.

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/in-2023-ford-again-led-nation-i...

Anti EV publications like the NYP should definitely be called out for writing misleading headlines.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#87

Post by bumby »

wvenable wrote: post #82
bumby wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely get it, but I just think it's being overly pedantic to try and make the point. The meanings of words change with the culture and I don't think this is an exception. English if rife with examples of colloquial uses that depart from their original meanings. The word "awful" derives from "inspiring awe." "Fathom" used to mean "to encircle with one's arms." "Myriad" used to mean, very specifically, 10,000 in…

I think this entire topic proves your point wrong. The very top comment is exclaiming how insignificant this is compared to the headline. All the conversation here is a debate of this very issue in one way or another. We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the word "recall" wasn't used. If it was just a called "a required over-the-air fix" it wouldn't have made it on to HN.

How do you know that interpretation isn't biased by the HN audience? I would be careful overgeneralizing from the opinions on this forum.

I read that initial comment as "Meh, the fix isn't a big deal," which is different than "the recall is a non-issue." Just because it's an easy fix doesn't negate the need for the fix.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#88

Post by bumby »

quonn wrote: post #60
falcolas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's become as formal as a recall, it's worth at least noting. Sure, the fix is simple (and most folks won't even notice), but Tesla was still forced into making the fix.

Omg, they forced Tesla. Presumably they also forced all other manufacturers to make the text the right size, whether they shipped that incorrectly or not. I don't think anyone had a choice.

The difference is that if the standards were in place before the manufacturing process, they shouldn't need to be recalled in the first place. "Forcing" means something different when standards aren't met vs. recalls related to fixes due to some non-standardized issue.

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#89

Post by bumby »

Veserv wrote: post #63
gfosco wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's time to fight over words. The definition of recall no longer works, and I believe it is constantly used specifically negatively against Tesla. It has an effect on most people, who aren't savvy, who don't read beyond the headline. (i've not participated in these alleged battles before)

You are right. People seem to think a recall means “taking it in to get fixed”. But, a recall actually means the product has a dangerous defect that requires the manufacturer to promptly fix it for free otherwise the vehicle must be removed from the road. To better explain this we should use the term “dangerous defect” instead of “recall”. “Teslas contain another dangerous defect - affecting 2.2 million vehicles” doe…

The correct term may just be "non-compliant design"

Re: Tesla facing another massive recall – affecting 2.2 million vehicles

#90

Post by wvenable »

bumby wrote: post #87
wvenable wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this entire topic proves your point wrong. The very top comment is exclaiming how insignificant this is compared to the headline. All the conversation here is a debate of this very issue in one way or another. We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the word "recall" wasn't used. If it was just a called "a required over-the-air fix" it wouldn't have made it on to HN.

How do you know that interpretation isn't biased by the HN audience? I would be careful overgeneralizing from the opinions on this forum. I read that initial comment as "Meh, the fix isn't a big deal," which is different than "the recall is a non-issue." Just because it's an easy fix doesn't negate the need for the fix.

It a half-a-point font-size difference is a big issue to you then we have very different ideas of what a big issue is. I'm not arguing that it isn't incorrect or that it doesn't require a fix but I would argue that the moment either one of us decided to comment it already has taken far more of our consideration and attention than it should. And it's all because of the word "Recall".

> How do you know that interpretation isn't biased by the HN audience?

It is objectively a small issue and the fact that the HN audience is likely better able to sniff that out due to their technical background only strengthens my argument.

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