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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#931

Post by reducesuffering »

ofirg wrote: post #760
YZF wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more nuanced. Some people in the government respect Barak. I don't know that Barak is active in politics (I haven't really heard him opine on the current government, but one can imagine he's not a fan). The more extreme parties in the government resent/oppose Barak. The "government" doesn't attack Barak or protest against him but certainly some (extreme/right-wing) political factions in Israel blame him for m…

Barak very recently (under 1 year) and strongly attacked the governments legal reform plans

So would most secular liberal Israelis and HN’ers. Doesn’t have much to do with post Oct. 7th realities.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#932

Post by plandis »

teleforce wrote: post #805

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published sev…

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#933

Post by tim333 »

voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

Imagine you have a Gaza like area where you live. You want to live in peace but the other folk want to wipe out your state on the basis that Islam must rule your area and destroy its current government. Also they occasionally fire rockets at your schools and get out and murder and rape people. Do you not think you might get annoyed with them?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#934

Post by eej71 »

seydor wrote: post #872
eej71 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the premise of "the law of retaliation is a moral dead end" is just a high minded pathway to endless violence and anarchy.

israel has already created more terrorists than those it took down. "An eye for an eye" never works

The ideology of Islamic Fundamentlism is responsible for these terrorists. If Israel deserves any blame, its for listening to The West's constant demands for appeasement.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#935

Post by kylecazar »

WuxiFingerHold wrote: post #847

[flagged]

Despite the name, HN has never been constrained to stories about IT, tech and startups.

It's the first sentence of the guidelines:

"On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#936

Post by LightBug1 »

nomdep wrote: post #683
LightBug1 wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I suppose it depends if you follow it in "the news" or your first contact was the Hamas videos of October 7th

It doesn't depend on anything.

Objectively, Hamas carried out a terrorist attack.

Objectively, Israel are conducting a genocide.

Anything else is hot air. Both deserve our criticism.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#937

Post by Asafp »

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #928
Asafp wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Big difference is that Israel is not targeting civilians on purpose I think this is not a justified statement. Keeping in mind hat israeli government is clearly very far right, and on multiple occasions have brought up deranged things about Amalek, about "no innocents in Gaza", I think one can establish a reasonable doubt about the true intent of idf actions.

Israel is not targeting civilians, thats a fact. It gains nothing from hitting them, and trying it best to evacuate them to safe zones. Why would they try to hit civilians? and if they did, why they didnt try to fire into the safe zones? (whom Hamas have fired rockets into Israel from multiple times, yet Israel didnt attack in order to not hit civilians, while risking its own civilians) The people making decisions right now are not far-right, the far-right have been moved to the side line when it comes to the war decision making.Instead Gants and Eizenkot joined, whom both are moderate right. All the sentence you quoted are out of context and were said just after a few days that Israel suffered the biggest massacre, the entire country was in trauma and in emotions.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#938

Post by Asafp »

tome wrote: post #885
infamouscow wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming majority of people on Earth disagrees with what the government of Israel is doing.

I think it's extremely sad that the measured and helpful comment that you are replying to was flagged. It suggests that the preponderance of HN commentors skews heavily one way on this issue (whether that skew is correct or not is another matter). To respond to your comment specifically: I'm proud to count myself in the overwhelming minority.

I agree, I would love to get @dang answer on why my comment is flagged and hidden, while massive misinformation is allowed to stay up here. and people here wonder why Israel put resource into showing the truth to the world.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#939

Post by peanutcrisis »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #909
tim333 wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polite factual refutation probably works.

yea I tried that. I posted links to all my sources as well as opinions from credible human rights organizations. they just play the game of being obtuse to the very end and then gaslight you about needing to backup my opinions as if there weren't at least 2-3 inks for every assertion I make. one side of this debate is very much NOT acting in good faith because they rely on the status quo being maintained to continue…

I think that's in part because the sources that were once credible, i.e. NGOs, universities, media, and other cultural institutions, have taken a hit to their own reputation as a result of their institutional capture over the years.

For every article you can find in support of one camp, one could find a counter piece from other credible sources as well (i.e. NYT vs The Economist and The Atlantic). For every NGO one can quote, someone else can quote from someone who've resigned, or once run/founded the very NGO that they're now criticizing (i.e. Danielle Haas, Ira Glasser, Nadine Strossen, Bob Bernstein). You can even pitch the NGOs against one another, such as HRW and Amnesty against the ADL.

Ultimately, bad faith actors are indeed the root cause of the problem. However, I think the bigger problem here is the inability of these bad faith actors to recognize that belong to the very group they're criticizing. If facts were all that mattered, I would expect to see more people expressing more nuanced takes, or express more uncertainty. After all, it would be rather surprising for a consumer of news to hold their view with that much confidence when even the mainstream sources they are relying on is in dispute with one another.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#940

Post by megous »

locallost wrote: post #874
megous wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Today we are faced with an Islamist cause, led by Hamas. Obviously, this kind of cause is absolute and allows no form of negotiation." Lost me there, because this is not the framing that matches reality. There were several instances where Hamas was willing to form unity government with Fatah/PLO, to share power, negotiate, to do things like that. It's first and foremost a national liberation movement. The movement i…

He says exactly the same. There were in the past, but not today. He says the same thing for Israel - switched from secular to biblical and thus unable to compromise.

I think why Israel's current government will not compromise is very pragmatic. It failed too badly in preventing this escalation, and has little support. Look at those numbers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_I...

Netanyahu is basically done and gone. His only hold on power is continuing the extermination campaign against Hamas and their families, until some miracle reversal in the polling numbers. His only mandate currently is for the "war".

Additionally, Israel doesn't need to compromise, due to large amount of outside support (in the form of material and political (vetoes in UN SC, etc.) support for its extermination campaign, and the sanctions against Hamas), and due to the massive power difference between it and Hamas.

Biblical stuff is largely a smokescreen/justification for pragmatic matters as far as government/politics goes. And maybe some ideological food for non-secular reserve soldiers to be more willing to go get maimed in Gaza.

How did it turn biblical, with 45% of Israeli Jews being secular, and 27% of population not being Jewish?

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