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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#881

Post by halflife »

austin-cheney wrote: post #851
halflife wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution is to make Jews a minority in their own country? The entire reason Israel was created is to have a safe place for Jews to exist and having the power to defend themselves. Imagining that just “tearing down the walls”, and “why can’t we all just gel along” will work is pretty naive, especially considering history .

The solution is to end tribalism, and nothing more. The rest of your comment imagines and argues against something not stated. Do you want peace or domination? You can’t have both, and that is not naive.

Tribalism is human nature. You simply can’t end it. And pointing it as a solution for the Palestinian problem is just as likely as “saying let’s colonize mars”, both are very nice ideas, but only feasible in movies.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#882

Post by edanm »

Qem wrote: post #769
throwaway421967 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the comment that I replied to was flagged, I'm posting this here because it is simply a statement of facts. - Judge Barak's numbers on civilian deaths on 7th october are simply wrong and could've been easily checked. 766 civilians were killed, 1200 was the total number of deaths (including armed forces). - Israel's own numbers say "2 civilians killed for every one militant"[1], that's 66% in the Gaza offensive.…

Regarding the people that died on October 7, one important detail is evidence surfaced it appears a sizeable fraction was killed due to Israeli military attacking militants and hostages without distinction, to avoid capture, following the so called Hannibal directive: https://thecradle.co/articles/israeli-army-ordered-mass-hann... https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaga... https://en.m.wikipedia.…

As far as has been credibly reported, it wasn't a "sizeable fraction", it was a very small number. There's only one incident I know of that is verified.

I'm sure more will surface - such is war. Therefore I want to make it very clear - it is not an important detail, despite you calling it such. Hamas are the ones that attacked - if in the process of trying to stop these attacks, the IDF inadvertantly killed Israeli civilians, that is tragic - but is completely the fault of Hamas. This is true both legally and morally.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#883

Post by slowturtle »

Adverblessly wrote: post #221
smoothjazz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. I can certainly think of some other ethnicity in that region who had their land occupied and was cleansed from the region. They even somehow managed to survive an attempt to fully exterminate them! Surely there will be peace once they get all of their land back :)

> I can certainly think of some other ethnicity in that region who had their land occupied and was cleansed from the region.

And I can certainly think of some other ethnicity in that region who that ethnicity cleansed from the region according to their own holy book. :)

Deuteronomy 20:16-17 (God telling Joshua, leader of the Israelites, to go to war)

> 16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#884

Post by tome »

voisin wrote: post #13
smoothjazz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

I have read a bit about this and I understand the explanation but I still don’t understand how a group of people subject to genocide can turn around and a few generations later be behaving in many (obviously not all) of the same ways toward another group. I would think that if anything the Israeli people would have some empathy and try to find a two state solution that exists in peace.

You're right. It's incomprehensible. In such a situation I can recommend resolving the impasse by broadening what you consider to be the possibly solution space. More specifically, consider the possibility that what you think is happening is not an accurate reflection of what is actually happening.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#885

Post by tome »

infamouscow wrote: post #283
Asafp wrote: post #265

[flagged]

The overwhelming majority of people on Earth disagrees with what the government of Israel is doing.

I think it's extremely sad that the measured and helpful comment that you are replying to was flagged. It suggests that the preponderance of HN commentors skews heavily one way on this issue (whether that skew is correct or not is another matter). To respond to your comment specifically: I'm proud to count myself in the overwhelming minority.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#887

Post by waffleiron »

bart_spoon wrote: post #772
hayst4ck wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The fundamental flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that overwhelming victory is what established the current world order. Rebuilding Europe via the Marshall plan, which involved humanization of individuals who fought on behalf of evil, is why there is peace in Europe. Likewise, the US reconstruction of Japan is why the US and Japan are at peace. The US held the position of power and chose not to exercise it…

The Marshall plan was only enacted after Germany and Japan had been reduced to rubble, had millions of their civilian population killed through indiscriminate bombing, including the use of two atom bombs, occupied, submit to total surrender, the entirety of their command structure executed, and their governments dismantled and replaced by the Allies. I think you are skipping over quite a bit of human bloodshed and st…

To add on to that, there wasn’t an immediate rehabilitation. Many, many terrible things happened after the war that are kinda buried in history. See for example: https://www.haaretz.com/2015-12-15/ty-article/.premium/movie...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#888

Post by teleforce »

whalesalad wrote: post #843
teleforce wrote: post #805

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published sev…

[flagged]

Imagine trying to extend and justify every land conflict way further before the Roman Empire, hence the Italian can claim back their ruling over most of England, and the Moroccan over most of Spain.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#889

Post by matsemann »

surume wrote: post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

> We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not.

How many Hamas terrorists have you killed compared to the now over 10 000 children?

The fact that there is no one to bury them doesn't mean it's not a genocide, come on..

> so we have no choice but to kill them too

When you fire at children playing in the streets, you had a choice. If you can't see that, you've lost all humanity..

> but we do not specifically target them

Hundreds of videoes proves otherwise. Where fleeing civilians are gunned down.

> Personally, as a commander, I would like to say that I have no ill feelings towards the Palestinian people

But your leaders have. And your peers, judging by videoes they posts about the cruelty they do.

> but we need to get as many of the hostages back as possible

You say that, but then you bomb every structure you find, and even shoot the fleeing hostages yourself. It doesn't really seem you care too much for them, they're merely a convenient excuse to do your horrors.

> Please support us and help rid the world of violent terrorism

You can start by laying down your weapon. What you're doing to Palestinian civilians is terrorism.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#890

Post by matsemann »

riscy wrote: post #850
surume wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Those are just buildings. Without people, they are just structures. Again, if Hamas was firing at us from behind civilians (which they do a lot), then we had no choice. You can't just call anything a mass grave for the sake of convenience.

You can’t just call it “collateral damage” for the sake of avoiding the label of genocide while you’re murdering, starving, and barbarically destroying a society of millions of innocent people.

Yeah, either he is brain washed (likely if he really is a soldier), or this is the IDF propaganda machine working hard with fake profiles.
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