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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#141

Post by crote »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #111
Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

They might look like "the good guys" by doing that, but they'd also be dragging themselves into an open war Israel (and its allies). I'm not sure that would be a smart move. I'm also unsure if this move would be seen well domestically. They have enough problems right now, and focusing resources on this doesn't sound like it would be met with high praise.

I think the idea is that they'd genuinely be providing humanitarian aid, with military presence genuinely being there for self-defense.

They would simply be stepping into the role on the world stage the US and other Western countries have fulfilled for the last few decades. Israel probably wouldn't be foolish enough to attack them, and their allies definitely wouldn't aid them.

And in the unlikely event Israel does attack their humanitarian convoy, it would only give China an opportunity to do some live-fire practice and score extra points on the world stage as the innocent defender.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#142

Post by shkkmo »

biorach wrote: post #117
Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

This seems far fetched given China's traditional insistence that countries' internal affairs should not be subject to external overview, it's undeclared stance that subject populations should be suppressed by whatever means necessary and the still marginal effect of the conflict on its trade.

I don't see how military operations outside of a country's legal territory is considered an "internal affair"

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#143

Post by bawolff »

aaomidi wrote: post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

Is that even possible procedurally? the preliminary hearing is done. They are meeting in feb to discuss the report on the things ordered, but i dont think they can just randomly make more orders at that point that aren't related to the granted orders.

[Ianal]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#144

Post by vladgur »

voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

I was in my 20s and remember the feeling in the air after Al Qaeda members hijacked commercial planes and flew them into WTC in 2001. Fear, Anger, A bit of revenge.

Many of Americans, including soviet immigrants, enlisted in the army driven by that feeling.

Israelis lost significantly more of their population percentage-wise during October 7 attack perpetrated by the official government of Gaza AND as we know now, some Gazan civilians. Over 200 Israelis were taken hostage.

With that in mind, its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#145

Post by hmcq6 »

adwn wrote: post #129
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #71

I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.

[flagged]

When has SA ever been quiet about apartheid?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#146

Post by muchosandwich »

mschuster91 wrote: post #137
Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

> Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has a large number of amphibious assault ships available. They can defend themselves against Israel air attacks. Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place - if there is one thing that even the split US Congress will agree on, it is that China already has too much influence and that they need to be stopped. Additionally, China's…

China has been skirmishing with India pretty recently

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#147

Post by 1letterunixname »

ICJ didn't reach any conclusions or positions except that IDF needs to be careful. No call for a ceasefire.

I'm curious what people in Tel Aviv see in media. In America, it's wall-to-wall "police say"-like IDF clips and Bill Maher condemnation, dehumanization, and equivocating Palestine supporters with Hamas terrorists. The talking heads cheerfully greet Netanyahu.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#148

Post by skrebbel »

smoothjazz wrote: post #127
skrebbel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily I don’t understand why people think this is a good argument. Lots and lots of places shifted in control since 1948. Poland moved half a country to the left, world empires got decolonized, India and Pakistan split and then the latter split once more, all with enormous population…

Forcing people off of their land is the definition of ethnic cleansing and I don't think that's ever ok nor generally accepted in the world. I think Israel is a lot like apartheid South Africa. You can end the apartheid government and start making reparations, including land back to the native inhabitants.

Yeah it's never OK but do you also think Finland should get Viipuri back? That was the second-largest city of Finland, the Soviets took it in WWII and kicked out all the Finns and that was that. It's now Vyborg, a sleepy Russian town of little importance. That was a catastrophe too.

Do you also think Lviv should be Polish? And Wrocław German? And Trabzon Greek? No wait I mean Armenian, which do we even pick, seriously everybody wants Trabzon! Should the entire Arabian peninsula be Turkish again?

Where does it stop? Why should Palestine be restored to its one-time borders but not the rest? All this happened in a time when moving populations around at the whim of a few imperialist rulers was considered a super normal thing to do. That doesn't make it right, but the Nakba isn't a particularly unique historical event. Get over it, and focus on the actual current events that are also bad, such as the settlements, decades of effective imprisonment of everybody in Gaza, and so on. There's plenty of good arguments! But "from the river to the sea" is a far right revisionist talking point and in my opinion it does an enormous disservice to the Palestinian case.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#149

Post by charred_patina »

biorach wrote: post #130
charred_patina wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common sentiment I have heard in the US is that "TikTok causes antisemitism". What I believe is actually happening is that TikTok debunks a lot of Hasbara talking points about the Israeli occupation of palestine (because people can see the violence with their own eyes), but then people are not educated further about the nuances of Zionism and Judaism, the different political movements within Israel like Gush Emunim…

> when westerners stop supporting Israel they adopt antisemitic viewpoints. That is very definately not a given. There are many, a majority I hope, of "westerners" who oppose the actions of the state of Israel without becoming anti semetic

Not all, sorry I should have qualified that statement. I was just trying to point out that when Israel claims that it stands for all jews, it can backfire and actually end up causing more antisemitism. I have added some qualifying statements.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#150

Post by dang »

ars wrote: post #87
dang wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the HTML doc title of the article, which is always an option for "original title" in the guidelines' sense of that term ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). What's inaccurate about it? (Btw - thank you for posting the links in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39146163 . We need those.)

Isn't there a rule about modifying inflamatory titles? The article title "Top UN court orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza but stops short of ordering cease-fire" is less inflamatory, and will help prevent comments from going sideways. Or you can switch to https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-braces-worl... if you want the title to match the HTML title.

I don't see how it's inflammatory. It seems strictly neutral to me, with the possible exception of the word 'demands'.
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