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Framework Laptop 16 Review

phoronix.com

141–150 of 404 posts

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#141
post #117
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope with the new modular keyboard tray we will get some decent option. I would only buy it if there was one with a track point tbh, third party or otherwise.

I dream of having a laptop with a standard tenkeyless layout. If I end up buying a Framework at some point I might build my own TKL keyboard, or pay handsomely to have one custom-built, such is my burning desire to keep my existing muscle-memory.

Yeah I’m not a fan of the numpad on laptops. If im doing serious data entry I’ll get out a numpad (Keychron C1) or a full keyboard. And it actively reduces the space for the rest of the KB layout, speakers, etc.

But as you say, the cool part about framework is that everyone can customize it to their own tastes.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#143
I'm really interested in getting a Framework to run as my Linux laptop. Does anyone have experience using GNOME on their Framework (preferably AMD)? How is the heat dissipation and battery life? My main issue with most laptops is how they get uncomfortably hot after a while. That and also bad trackpads.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#144
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework's hands are tied; the battery life with Apple's CPUs simply can't be touched by the biggest players like Intel and AMD.

Touched maybe not, but it's almost 20 hours worse. Surely it doesn't have to be THAT bad?

Apple's 22 hr rating for the 16" MBP is a maximum for a niche task, it's only (up to) 15 hrs of "wireless web", which is a more typical usage and would only be about 12 hrs worse.

All that configurability of the Framework takes up space, so its battery is 15% less (85 W/h compare to 100 W/h for the MBP).

The MBP has a CPU and instruction set that was optimized for low power from the beginning, compared to x86 which has 40 years of ad-hoc cruft and assumed wall power in the beginning, so it may not even be possible to implement the whole instruction set in low-power. (Intel tried, and did not succeed. Could be BigCO ineffeciencies, but could also be that it just isn't realistic.) But Intel/AMD can't switch architectures like Apple can, because they don't control the software. There's no guarantee that the buyer of a hypothetical improved instruction set Intel CPU has access to a Rosetta program (even if Intel had the imagination to do that). On top of that, Apple has been optimizing that CPU for 15 years, and is has access to the leading node.

Additionally, (presumably because of the lack of legacy cruft) Apple has space on their die for huge caches and the GPU. On-die GPU eliminates power consumption due to an additional discrete component. Large caches also help things go faster, which means the CPU can drop down to low-power mode quicker.

Since Apple owns the CPU, it can customize the CPU for its needs, and it has relentless optimized for low power consumption, even to the extent of putting in a few new instructions for the OS.

Apple owns the OS, so it can have all kinds of power-saving features that a mass-market OS like Windows cannot feasibly implement. It is not in Microsoft's interest to take advantage of every little power savings a motherboard manufacturer might add: extra complexity (= bugs and maintenance costs) with no extra revenue potential. Linux has a similar problem, and additionally there are enough problems needing attention that I expect power optimizations beyond the big ones just do not have the interest / resources. For instance, if a 5% improvement would require a large kernel / driver refactor, I suspect it's a hard sell. Plus, macOS doesn't need to support anywhere near the number of configurations that Linux does, so it probably is less effort to do. So all those 5% increases that Apple can do add up.

Then there is the aspect that Apple can tune its OS for power saving. Update Cocoa to save energy and everyone's app uses less power. I expect GTK and Qt have other more pressing problems. On top of that, I expect Wayland and especially Xorg are not designed with minimal power consumption in mind. Etc, all the way down.

That said, 2.5 hrs does seem like it could definitely be improved.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#145
post #41
post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions folks have on this product.

Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? From what I've read battery life is still an issue many seem to be having. With the greatest respect it's 2024, a laptop should be capable of 8 hours at the very minimum for a mid range model but I'm seeing a lot of people getting sub 2 hours. The 16 ticks all the boxes for me but I've held off for now as having the possibility of worse…

> Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency?

discussion: https://community.frame.work/t/simple-extra-battery-for-the-...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not used a Windows laptop outside of Razer and maybe Surface in many years. How do those Thinkpad keyboards compare to new Macbook Pro keyboards? I've always found the Macbook Pro keyboards to be "fine," but I'm curious if I am actually missing out on a better experience.

> I've always found the Macbook Pro keyboards to be "fine," [...] Have you tried the previous, "butterfly" generation? It should've been criminal to ship that.

I have and I think it's fine. The newer ones are better, but I never understood the enormous dislike for it. IMO the pre-butterfly keyboard is still better than even the current iteration.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not just a simple square grid, but something designed for ergonomics. You don't need to invent a new layout, there's plenty of pretty good designs you can copy, like Corne or Atreus. But at this point I'd take anything - even a narrower space bar (so that you can use your thumbs for modifiers without contorting them) would be a huge improvement. Even just looking at staggered keyboards hurts my hands.

There's a surprisingly large cohort that believes a matrix layout is ergonomic—as in, "I have an ergonomic keyboard". From my personal use, it's a wash at best—some keys are easier to reach, and others are harder. The worst part is the layout promotes ulnar deviation even more than does a standard keyboard, and ulnar deviation is a major contributor to RSI. (A split matrix-style keyboard would negate the ulnar deviat…

> From my personal use, it's a wash at best—some keys are easier to reach, and others are harder

I agree.

> the layout promotes ulnar deviation even more than does a standard keyboard

Hard disagree. You may choose to hold your wrists in such a manner that this is true, but that's on you.

I'm a touch typist, and I switched to ortho partly because it makes a lot more sense for touch typing. Touch typing is taught in columns, and when those columns are slanted like this \ there really is no justification. So ortho lets me scratch that itch to fix the keyboard.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#148

I thought my framework was great at two weeks, it was around 2 months that my mind started changing, and at 10 months that I replaced it with a mac

After trying to replace the battery in a 2014 MacBook Pro, doing a repair in a 2020 MBP, and my experience (performance aside) with an M3, I wish I could buy your framework (alas, iOS development).

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#149

It's useless with this near-zero-height keyboard. Instead of offering us a usable keyboard, they put in RGB lighting. Unless they offer something we can press with decent key travel - and I mean no less than 2.5 mm - I'm not buying. (For those who don't know what I mean: https://www.pcworld.com/article/557179/full-travel-keyboard-... )

my thinkpad keyboard from 2014 definitely has and yes, I do say that even though I also have a keychron keyboard for my desktop

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#150
post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions folks have on this product.

Hi - Linux still has spotty fractional scaling support. It would be nice to have a display option that is either usable without fractional scaling (1920x1200) or one that works with 2x scaling (3840x2400).

It's on the road to improve, as GNOME continues work here. KDE users have reported a cleaner look overall for applications that are not displaying in a way folks would like to see. Fedora Workstation for example, keeps folks to a 100 or 200% scale due to this, but it can be enabled easily enough if on e prefers.

This is an area of active development that will continue to see improvement.

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