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"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

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Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#361

Post by groby_b »

showerst wrote: post #318
groby_b wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that this is not what people perceive to be the problem with it. (It's also wrong. Sexual harassment claims require repeated offenses that generate a climate of hostility. Yay, corporate sensitivity/harassment training ;) The bigger issue is that - should you have a woman on your team - you just told her in not so many words that you perceive women more as a piece of visual stimulation than an actual…

You're right that it shouldn't ever have to be the main reason, my point merely is that the punishment is a critical threat to your business, which is something that I think would strike home even among the most misogynistic members of the tech crowd. You're wrong about it requiring repeated events [1] [1] http://www.connellfoley.com/seminar/employharass.html - Search in the page for 'Taylor v. Metzger'. (IANAL, but…

True, but it requires extreme circumstances. Unfortunately, the kind of harassment women usually experience is not counted at that. I'll bet money that no jury will consider bikini pictures extreme harassment.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#362

Post by rmc »

theorique wrote: post #353
rmc wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would obviously exclude Muslims, so might be viewed as discriminatory.

As long as there are alternatives provided - e.g. soda or juice - it should be OK for Muslims and other non-drinkers. Unless the very presence of alcohol is an issue. Note that in the workplace I mentioned, the CTO (a co-founder of the company) was a life-long non-drinker and participated enthusiastically in after-work social events that involved responsible use of beer and other alcoholic drinks. He just drank soda…

As long as there are alternatives provided - e.g. soda or juice - it should be OK for Muslims and other non-drinkers

Yes probably.

It's all a continuum. Saying pre-req: "enjoyment of beer" is basically "No muslims". Having a lot of social functions depend on beer could be an issue. Imagine the high power workplaces of the past (and now I'm sure) where business decisions were made in the strip club, which women would feel uncomfortable in. Something like that for muslims could be consured as a weak form of sectarianism, and potentially make the employer somewhat liable.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#363

Post by burgerbrain »

Tichy wrote: post #299
gawker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this extends towards a lot of issues. The "Whoa, don't be so serious, it's just a joke" card gets played time and time again to hide people's insensitivity to others.

I wonder if there would be any jokes left in a 100% PC world.

There will still be puns... but probably not much else.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#364

Post by JanezStupar »

rada wrote: post #352
JanezStupar wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that this applies to you, but I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card, when in fact she was no good as programmer. She wanted to be involved, she wanted to do cool stuff. But she didn't have the basics dialed at all and didn't have the work ethic to pick it up at an accelerated pace. As far as I have seen the guys in hard fields (as AI and Robotics) are pretty selective bunch and wi…

She is talking about high school for chrissakes. A place you go to even before you go to college, which in itself is a place you go to so you can become good years later.

I got isolated in kindergarten for not being cool enough to hang out with the cool kids.

I'm not saying that there should be some kind of enforcement to get nerds accepted into society.

I am just saying that you either deal with it or go away.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#365

Post by burgerbrain »

droithomme wrote: post #238
debacle wrote: post #4

I didn't realize this was such a big problem. I don't think I've ever met a brogrammer outside of the Internet.

I've been in the industry for decades and interacted with thousands of developers over this time. I've never seen, met or heard a legitimate report of a brogrammer, being an immature, extroverted party going frat house programmer. It's basically an ESxP on the Myers-Briggs. That personality type doesn't get programming or design at all. I have definitely seen this personality type in sales and executive positions tho…

Exactly. Everyone has worked themselves up into hysterics over the individual words that he used, while failing to recognize what he was saying.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#366

Post by Tichy »

gawker wrote: post #360
Tichy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there would be any jokes left in a 100% PC world.

Not sure but it is a fine line to walk on and it's not easy to distinguish where that line is drawn. Most of the things that are considered racist here in Canada seem mild in Asia. Some things in Asia considered racist aren't as bad here. It's difficult since everyone's sensitivity levels are different from one another. Having some sense of who our audience is will help.

I don't know many jokes. What I meant is, I wonder if jokes are usually based on going against some sensitivity.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#367

Post by moocow01 »

Drbble wrote: post #331
moocow01 wrote: post #208

Path... Uninstalled. If this is how there "executives" think, I'm sure they could care less about the ethical use and protection of user data.

Did you miss the part where Path was caught hacking users phones to steal their addressbooks?

I did miss that one - I guess I uninstalled too late but that paints a pretty complete picture of the company.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#368

Post by 127 »

rada wrote: post #351
127 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And why is that, in your opinion? The rules of sexual marketplace. >Do you think it's equally as unimportant for ugly women? What about lesbians? Both are a small minority. Ugly women still can't improve their attractiveness by having a job nearly as much as men can.

You know, I tried to hint at where your logic breaks down and be a little funny while at it, but you just don't get it. Let me be more direct. 1. It is most definitely not a small minority that would be excluded from high-paying jobs if these jobs are to go only to men, and only so they could use money to get women. You would have to exclude gay men, married men, men with girlfriends, and many more groups that when t…

If you take my argument to a hyperbole, it is obviously not going to work. Men and women are not clones of each other. We have different values and different needs. Different challenges. According to those drives we act in the most efficient manner we can. Part biological, part cultural, part rational.

Sexual dimorphism exists. I have seen strong evidence for this.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#369

Post by gdubs »

rada wrote: post #359
nextstep wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. The results Siri returns are from Google or WolframAlpha, so a lack of information on one subject is not necessarily Apple's oversight. I think that the abortion-directions issue was later attributed to Google's SafeSearch filter.

Siri uses Google by default. I just searched google local for "abortion", and Planned Parenthood was in fact listed. If SafeSearch filter is turned on, then it should not be finding prostitution providers either.

Google search results are vastly different these days depending on who (or what) is searching. My guess is that 'who is searching' in this case is a box in a datacenter, somewhere in the midwest.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#370

Post by oh_sigh »

rada wrote: post #103
lotharbot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis" Brain chemistry is relevant to logical analysis. Gender has significant effects on brain chemistry. There are also social problems that contribute. But the gender ratio would not be 50-50 even in a completely egalitarian society. Women like my wife [0] are rare, partly because of "brogrammers" chasing them off, but also because a smaller proportion of women are interested…

The problem with brain chemistry and other "hard facts" is that they are always cherry-picked to justify one's position post factum. Example: where I grew up, girls were considered to be better at technical disciplines because in class, girls sit still and pay attention while boys clown around and pick fights. On a larger note, please don't add to the fire saying that women are less interested in any kind of intellec…

"The problem with brain chemistry and other "hard facts" is that they are always cherry-picked to justify one's position post factum"

And therefore, brain chemistry plays no role whatsoever?

"On a larger note, please don't add to the fire saying that women are less interested in any kind of intellectual pursuits"

Why not, if it is true? Is it wrong to say that men are less interested in knitting than women? I'd like to know making true statements about a population is "dickery".

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