I'm the shirtless guy in the top-left photo. I feel pretty bummed that something we did to parody the ridiculous 'brogrammer' movement was used in this context : (
"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
201–210 of 375 posts
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#202sexists should be ostracised, and women allowed to hack in peace.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#203Only one minor point from me: the Dan Shapiro quote is a bit off. > To literally handicap yourself by 50 percent is insanity. From the figures I've seen, the handicap is in the 25-30 percent range based on the percentage of women in the industry. But I like his line of thinking. It's an old libertarian argument too: racism and sexism will be rooted out the market by those smart enough to take advantage of the inconsi…
Yes 20% now. But think long term. If we get rid of the sexism then there will be more women in tech. There is a shortage of programmers, so we increasing women increases possible workforce, good for companies.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would dare to guess that women are underrepresented among developers PRECISELY because of this culture and the underlying assumptions and attitudes. Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis, which is the foundation of programming. If you don't have parity in your pool of candidates, there's a cause, and it's probably social. Nursing and teaching used to be men's work. Women weren't thought to be capable of it. Too…
It's more than just women. I've been programming for 10 years and I don't like the culture. It's not the brogrammer stuff either. It's more the incredibly negative attitudes and litany of social faux pas. Programming isn't the only job that pays well and rewards the highly intelligent. Women probably aren't going into software dev because they're socially acclimated enough to realize what a bad deal it is. Software s…
If holding power over others and perpetuating inequitable power balance in capitalistic structures is your ultimate goal, I certainly would never admit to it as you just did.
As a programmer I mega-cringed when I read this and would certainly never work for you or any company you worked for if I read this.
So please, be more dismissive.
(Re: Downvotes - So I guess we should just treat programmers with derision and those with rolodexes as the bosses, case settled!)
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes there is a problem this is obvious. However... as long as women make up such a tiny minority of CS graduates there is no short-term financial incentive for companies to not just market directly to men. For example, if a certain recruiting tactic would double the number of qualified male applicants, but halve the number of qualified female applicants, it is clearly a short-term gain for a company. That's why the s…
Yes there is a problem this is obvious. However... as long as women make up such a tiny minority of CS graduates there is no short-term financial incentive for companies to not just market directly to men. Many commenters on this site, pg included, have noted that the economics of hiring are rationally biased to false negatives. This makes sense, because the price of false positives is so high. Unfortunately, this te…
I would argue that with developers, the cost of a false negative is higher. It is just that most companies don't understand the loss walking out the door. Interviews are fraught with 1001 ways to get a negative from a top 10 developer. The cost of hiring a bad one and figuring out they are bad is about 2 weeks pay, the cost of passing over a quality developer is the loss of a rare find and probably that developers social circle. Do not underestimate the cost of false negatives in relation to developers.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trying to tell people pulling this crap is wrong isn't doing something?
According to this guy you should just plow through and and just start recruiting females. It's that easy!
How many of these people have donated money to women in computing groups on college campuses? How many have mentored high school girls? How many have taught elementary school girls how to program? Did they send recruiters to and women in computing conferences?
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would dare to guess that women are underrepresented among developers PRECISELY because of this culture and the underlying assumptions and attitudes. Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis, which is the foundation of programming. If you don't have parity in your pool of candidates, there's a cause, and it's probably social. Nursing and teaching used to be men's work. Women weren't thought to be capable of it. Too…
Yes there is a problem this is obvious. However... as long as women make up such a tiny minority of CS graduates there is no short-term financial incentive for companies to not just market directly to men. For example, if a certain recruiting tactic would double the number of qualified male applicants, but halve the number of qualified female applicants, it is clearly a short-term gain for a company. That's why the s…
This seems like it is probably the case. Due to the incentives that drive hiring decisions, individuals and companies may all be making (short-term) rational decisions, with the net result that women are excluded.
The consequences of hiring someone that doesn't fit into a particular company's culture are quite severe -- not to mention potentially expensive. There can be a lot of reluctance, some of it understandable, to hiring anyone who is different in any significant way from current employees. That most obviously includes women, but (at companies where most employees are young and single) also older workers, people with children, etc.
The lack of women is the most glaring, but I suspect if you ran the numbers that there are a lot of other groups underrepresented in software development. It's not so much that women are being specifically excluded, as it is that a certain type of person (male geek, to be blunt) is being specifically sought.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#208Path... Uninstalled.
If this is how there "executives" think, I'm sure they could care less about the ethical use and protection of user data.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you misread that paragraph. He does not seem to be writing only about programmers, but about everyone that a startup might need to hire. Read this again: "Shapiro, who has blogged in the past about sexism in the tech industry, notes that "it is a widely understood truth that the single biggest challenge to a successful startup is attracting the right people. To literally handicap yourself by 50 percent is ins…
Since we're being 'realistic', the opportunity cost to a business for a disparity in talent in HR barely registers. Relatively minor differences in skill between programmers can mean millions of dollars to a business.
Even if you assume that HR talent differences don't matter, you can't make the same assumption about marketing, PR, and other personnel with much needed soft-skills.
So what you're left with in a single-minded company of brogrammers and soft-bros is effectively a brain drain that leads to the kinds of flubs the author describes that drive customers and sponsors away.
Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem
#210The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE! It's the very opposite of a stereotypical programmer. It's simply taking a stereotype, flipping it around, and poking fun at it. Instead of being disgusted by jokes about nudie calendars, do something about it. Go give your own presentation. Recruit more women at your company. Turn the boys club into an everyone club. I'm not saying that everything people are doing is okay, I'm jus…
The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE!
It's not funny, and it never was. Also, this sounds so much like someone who is truly bigoted trying to save face and cover up for their sociopathic tendencies.
I'm glad that many people (including men!) are calling out and ostracizing "brogrammers". The whole brogramming phenomenon is childish at its core and is not welcome in an industry already beleaguered by sexism. If you are a brogrammer please either grow up or leave the IT field to the adults.