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"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

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Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#351

Post by rada »

127 wrote: post #327
rada wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a good job is not as important for women as it is for men? Are you serious? And why is that, in your opinion? Two (hypothetically related, depending on your answer) mini questions: Do you think it's equally as unimportant for ugly women? What about lesbians?

>And why is that, in your opinion? The rules of sexual marketplace. >Do you think it's equally as unimportant for ugly women? What about lesbians? Both are a small minority. Ugly women still can't improve their attractiveness by having a job nearly as much as men can.

You know, I tried to hint at where your logic breaks down and be a little funny while at it, but you just don't get it. Let me be more direct.

1. It is most definitely not a small minority that would be excluded from high-paying jobs if these jobs are to go only to men, and only so they could use money to get women. You would have to exclude gay men, married men, men with girlfriends, and many more groups that when taken together, would comprise an overwhelming majority.

2. I really hope you take this next point the right way. If you genuinely believe that the formula of the sexual marketplace is money≈sex, you really need some introspection and perhaps a radically different environment - friends, reading material, TV shows, parents... whatever sources you are getting that information from. I am not trying to be glib. You are being misled, and you are the only person who will pay for it in the long term.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#352

Post by rada »

JanezStupar wrote: post #246
anichan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not be the primary reason but it certainly doesn't help. Back in high school, I was really excited to join the robotics team and I really had a passion for it but I only stayed in it for a year before quitting. I was the only girl on the team and the attitude people took with me was infuriating. It felt like such a boy's club. Sure, you can just pass it off as "boys will be boys", high school boys are stupid…

Not that this applies to you, but I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card, when in fact she was no good as programmer. She wanted to be involved, she wanted to do cool stuff. But she didn't have the basics dialed at all and didn't have the work ethic to pick it up at an accelerated pace. As far as I have seen the guys in hard fields (as AI and Robotics) are pretty selective bunch and wi…

She is talking about high school for chrissakes. A place you go to even before you go to college, which in itself is a place you go to so you can become good years later.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#353

Post by theorique »

rmc wrote: post #341
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a radical difference between a grown up workplace that sips a couple of high quality microbrews at Friday happy hour (my most recent workplace), and a frat house doing keg stands. And there's a lot of room in between the extremes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a social culture that enjoys a few beers after a hard day of work. On the contrary, it builds bonds between co-workers and leads to better wor…

It would obviously exclude Muslims, so might be viewed as discriminatory.

As long as there are alternatives provided - e.g. soda or juice - it should be OK for Muslims and other non-drinkers. Unless the very presence of alcohol is an issue.

Note that in the workplace I mentioned, the CTO (a co-founder of the company) was a life-long non-drinker and participated enthusiastically in after-work social events that involved responsible use of beer and other alcoholic drinks. He just drank soda or water.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#354

Post by MartinCron »

paulhauggis wrote: post #348
MartinCron wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Phillip Pullman when he says that "nobody has a right to never be offended." and that people should be free to say things that may be offensive, especially on their own time . The simple fact that you've been offended isn't reason to go to HR. You go to HR if you're being harassed or if people are actively creating a hostile work environment. It correlates with being offended, but it's not exactly the sa…

"If people were harassing you about your MJ legalization stance (or anything, for that matter), then it probably would be appropriate to go to HR about." I'm not talking about being harassed. I'm talking about just mentioning it. Just like the girl that wrote that bot that was here on HN and just like the discussion here. Using the term "gang raped" isn't being harassed personally. It doesn't end here because people…

I've seen this happen in almost every workplace where I've worked in the past 10 years.

You've actually seen people get fired based entirely on a single complaint about a single non-harassing offensive remark? I personally haven't seen anyone fired in this way. It's possible that this phenomenon is pervasive and I'm just ignorant, I guess.

But I'll be honest and step forward and say it: some kinds of speech should be silenced in a professional workplace, (yes, even startups). Sexist or racist or any other sort of othering language is neither appropriate nor necessary.

I know what this means. I'm generally a moderate person, but I do hold some pretty extreme views. I know that even though I have free-speech, I don't have consequence-free-speech and I am mature enough to silence myself when needed. The things that are OK for me to say over a beer with a friend on Friday night aren't OK for me to say around the water cooler on Monday morning. That's just part of being a professional.

If you want to be offensive and edgy, that's great. I love offensive and edgy. Just don't do it at work.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#355

Post by MartinCron »

anigbrowl wrote: post #160
lotharbot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis" Brain chemistry is relevant to logical analysis. Gender has significant effects on brain chemistry. There are also social problems that contribute. But the gender ratio would not be 50-50 even in a completely egalitarian society. Women like my wife [0] are rare, partly because of "brogrammers" chasing them off, but also because a smaller proportion of women are interested…

Brain chemistry is relevant to logical analysis. Gender has significant effects on brain chemistry. Law involves a great deal of logical analysis and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of capable women lawyers, despite a good deal of institutional discrimination in the past.

This is a great example that should be mentioned more often.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#356

Post by [deleted] »

batista wrote: post #345
danilocampos wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, I accept them 100%. I think that says more about you than it does the jokes.

Yes, it says a lot. For example that I can take a joke, that I don't agree with the PC hysteria, that I am not a prude, that I like free speech to remain so even if its my opponent that's doing the talking, etc. It also says that I don't like progressive squares and prudes as much as I don't like far-right nuts and prudes. It also says that I'm not for censorship and hypocrisy.

[deleted]

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#357

Post by rada »

ebbv wrote: post #30

Not that fucking Siri canard again. It was debunked repeatedly. The reason Planned Parenthood wasn't being found by the person's query is they were looking for "abortion provider" or something along those lines and Planned Parenthood wasn't listing itself under those terms. It had NOTHING to do with sexism on the part of the developers. Shame on the author.

I just searched google local for "abortion provider", and Planned Parenthood was in fact listed.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#358

Post by [deleted] »

JanezStupar wrote: post #337
slantyyz wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. > But I have only met a handful of women willing to put in the necessary work. If I were to go by my experience of people in tech (which includes non-startup environments), only a small portion of people are willing to put in…

> Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. Of course they will, but then the pathologic PC people will attack anyone calling them out on it. With this modern attitude that no one should ever get hurt, we are giving a carte blanche to the rotten apples. Just keep that in mind. > There's a higher concentration of people of people willing to…

[deleted]

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#359

Post by rada »

nextstep wrote: post #33
gdubs wrote: post #13

Interesting and well-written article, but one big problem: why throw in the Siri abortion thing? It wasn't needed to legitimize the author's point, and if anything comes across as technically naive. While Siri contains easter eggs that were manually added by programmers, the vast majority of searches would have to be algorithmic. Siri fails to find an answer to many basic queries, so to say that the lack of a respons…

Yeah, I agree. The results Siri returns are from Google or WolframAlpha, so a lack of information on one subject is not necessarily Apple's oversight. I think that the abortion-directions issue was later attributed to Google's SafeSearch filter.

Siri uses Google by default. I just searched google local for "abortion", and Planned Parenthood was in fact listed. If SafeSearch filter is turned on, then it should not be finding prostitution providers either.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#360

Post by gawker »

Tichy wrote: post #299
gawker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this extends towards a lot of issues. The "Whoa, don't be so serious, it's just a joke" card gets played time and time again to hide people's insensitivity to others.

I wonder if there would be any jokes left in a 100% PC world.

Not sure but it is a fine line to walk on and it's not easy to distinguish where that line is drawn. Most of the things that are considered racist here in Canada seem mild in Asia. Some things in Asia considered racist aren't as bad here. It's difficult since everyone's sensitivity levels are different from one another. Having some sense of who our audience is will help.
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