231–240 of 375 posts
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[citation needed] Please? I'm curious if this is local to you, or a more widespread thing.
Not sure if it applies to other countries outside America. I don't have a cite offhand unfortunately, you'd have to read some books about the history of education in America.
Startup = Punk Band. The worse they behave the more publicity they will get, the more people will know about their product. Plus the Techcrunch/Pando Daily's/Motherjones... of this world need something to talk about. Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to the age of the Punk Startup.
I, for one, DO NOT welcome the new Punk Startup overlords.
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I agree with you to a degree, but you simply can't put it as strong as you did. It is absolutely possible to make a joke that is understood as sexist without being one yourself. That's actually the schtick that a lot of comedians go by. Prefacing your comment with "I'm going to hell for this" is perfectly fine and in most cases, it does show that the person truly understands they're making a comment that could offend…
That's the premise of South Park, and why I accept it. They pick on everyone equally. That is the only "fair" way to express that sort of humor.
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I really hope you're just trolling, I hope no one here is actually this obtuse. But just in case... Referring to them as "gang bang interviews": * implies an equivalence between having several people take it in turns to overpower and rape you, and having several people take it in turns to ask you questions * brings up the topic of rape in a context where people are expected to laugh * brings up the topic of rape for…
Not trolling and I take exception to the implication that my point is so worthless. There are many parallels. As you point out the interviewee cornered in a room and find themselves attacked by one person after another. Most of the interviewers have the agenda to discredit and intimidate the interviewers whose looks or ethnicity they just don't like. If the person "looks cool" though then they go easy. It's hostile a…
Would you dare to say what you just said to an actual rape survivor? Are you that emotionally tone deaf or just misanthropic? Having a bunch of people ask you questions in a way you don't like, in a context where you're free to leave at any time, is not a form of violence. Maybe it's a form of aggression but not one that can credibly be compared to rape.
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Even if you assume that HR talent differences don't matter, you can't make the same assumption about marketing, PR, and other personnel with much needed soft-skills. So what you're left with in a single-minded company of brogrammers and soft-bros is effectively a brain drain that leads to the kinds of flubs the author describes that drive customers and sponsors away.
Yep, the kind of flubs like Path and PayPal.
Heyo!
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And not just women either. It's ridiculous to assume that 100% of the best/qualified programmers would want to work at a place like that.
Incidentally, this is how we fix it. If everyone just refuses to work with these assholes, and says so loudly, they'll... well, I'd like to say they'll pack up and leave the valley, but more likely they'll wind up concentrated in their own bro-heavy companies, which still seems like a net win for the rest of us.
Until I see evidence that "bro companies" are more successful than normal ones, I have no qualms about shunning them.
I didn't realize this was such a big problem. I don't think I've ever met a brogrammer outside of the Internet.
I have definitely seen this personality type in sales and executive positions though, also banking and finance, and among VCs.
But among programmers? No.
Now let's talk about why the US has fewer female programmers than Russia, China and India since that's not always been the case.
The work environment is the reason, and also pay. Hostile and confrontational gang-attack style interviews such as the person mentioned in his talk (and spoke out against) are a turn off for many, and women more than men. The writer walked out on the talk before he got to his point, but it sounds like, by criticizing the practice of gang attack interviews, and about to talk about attracting women, he may have been about to point out that fraternities that treat women as peers and respectfully end up with more female interest than fraternities that engage in gang assaults. Comparing recruiting to courtship is not a bad analogy. People don't like being abused and high quality people are going to avoid being in relationships, whether work or personal, where abuse is occurring, such as the many places that have gang attack style interviews.
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I would dare to guess that women are underrepresented among developers PRECISELY because of this culture and the underlying assumptions and attitudes. Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis, which is the foundation of programming. If you don't have parity in your pool of candidates, there's a cause, and it's probably social. Nursing and teaching used to be men's work. Women weren't thought to be capable of it. Too…
Yes there is a problem this is obvious. However... as long as women make up such a tiny minority of CS graduates there is no short-term financial incentive for companies to not just market directly to men. For example, if a certain recruiting tactic would double the number of qualified male applicants, but halve the number of qualified female applicants, it is clearly a short-term gain for a company. That's why the s…
My guess is that the "bro culture" is designed to attract a different population of men, who ordinarily would have gone to Wall Street or similar industries, but are attracted to the present web boom.
When the bubble's over, I predict the brogramming fad will fade. I certainly wouldn't want to work at a place with that culture if I could avoid it, but it seems like an essentially temporary phenomenon.
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"Women don't want to do software development because it's boring and difficult". Except it's a well known fact that until the 80's, roughly half of US programmers were women, and all around the world, the percentages of women in computing are growing, not shrinking. And please don't say that people who stay away from technical careers do so because it's "difficult". You are one conjecture away from suggesting that wh…
I did not say that software development was not difficult for Asians and whites. Just that it is difficult (and subjectively boring). Period. What I am saying, is that getting a good paying, stable job is not as important for women as it is for men, so they don't have to collectively sacrifice as much. Which is purely my opinion.
Two (hypothetically related, depending on your answer) mini questions: Do you think it's equally as unimportant for ugly women? What about lesbians?