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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#331

Post by natch »

intrasight wrote: post #289
squarefoot wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably having the brand Tesla exposed to other cars drivers will be enough PR.

How is the brand exposed? Do the plugs have to have the Tesla name or logo on them?

Google “Tesla supercharger” and you’ll see plenty of pictures of the huge installed base with the brand clearly there.

That being said, if any of these legacy companies who were not willing to invest in a charging network decide they want to finally step up and install some chargers of their own (I’m not holding my breath for any at scale), I’m pretty certain there will be no requirement for Tesla branding. Elon has said he doesn’t give a shit about branding.

It’s more important people will see the Tesla product and witness the features of Tesla cars first hand.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#332

Post by spaceywilly »

yurishimo wrote: post #329
spaceywilly wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask what seems like an obvious question… why can’t they just use credit card terminals like gas stations have been using for many decades?

They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." E…

Yeah that just seems like a poor decision on the part of these charger owners. I feel like there’s an opportunity for a company called “EZCharge - we take credit cards”. People will seek it out when looking for a charging station because they know they won’t need to download a BS app.

Or maybe another solution would be like WeChat Pay in China, something that’s so ubiquitous that all stores just have a QR code you scan to pay for anything nowadays. I’m surprised nothing like that has taken off in the US, it’s crazy convenient.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#333

Post by Smoosh »

yurishimo wrote: post #329
spaceywilly wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask what seems like an obvious question… why can’t they just use credit card terminals like gas stations have been using for many decades?

They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." E…

> Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers

That was my cynical take on it.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#334

Post by pitaj »

jorvi wrote: post #242
phkahler wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)

So what? For high-power charging, DC is better anyways. For low-power charging, having extra phases is useless.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#335

Post by seanmcdirmid »

spaceywilly wrote: post #332
yurishimo wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." E…

Yeah that just seems like a poor decision on the part of these charger owners. I feel like there’s an opportunity for a company called “EZCharge - we take credit cards”. People will seek it out when looking for a charging station because they know they won’t need to download a BS app. Or maybe another solution would be like WeChat Pay in China, something that’s so ubiquitous that all stores just have a QR code you sc…

There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way, maybe via an SMS that you add with your phone number. Also, you have to communicate your charging preference somehow. It’s not like pumping gas, you rarely want it to stop at 100%, although the charging standard might at least be able to control that from the car.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#336

Post by hgomersall »

dylan604 wrote: post #257
solatic wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recharging electric vehicles is not like refilling gas-powered cars. You will intentionally drive a gas vehicle down to 20%, even 10% tank left before going out of your way to a gas station, maybe once a week on average. But with electric cars, you should intentionally be plugging in to recharge as frequently as possible, at least once a day, as you are penalized (with longer recharge times) the longer you go between…

You must not have had a dad that harped on you about letting your tank get below 50%. If I let mine get down to 10%, my dad would have taken my keys away. There are many reasons people give for this that do not involve zombies and go bags

I remember the garage owner telling my parents they should only half fill the tank to reduce the weight being driven around.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#337

Post by masklinn »

MostlyStable wrote: post #326
dzhiurgis wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now go abroad where charging app is not available in your country or requires local phone number to register, uses local language, or even wants local address or local payment method. Just give me website god damn it.

Like i said, credit card terminals seem the best way to fix this problem, Rather than done complicated plug-and-charge mechanism

Yeah, CC terminals (and NFC / tap if you want to be fancy) are working things which work.

The only opposition I've heard is "uwu but charge costs are lower so CC fees add up".

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#338

Post by TheAlchemist »

InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

There is no such big story here.

The estimates are somewhere around 10B $ of revenue (not profit !) per year by 2030, and that's an optimistic scenario. Base case scenarios are much worse. And even that hypothetical 10B$ is hardly a 'massive' revenue stream for a company projecting to sell 10 million cars by that time (I would put their chances of achieving that goal at 0.01%). As usual with Tesla - it's all about projections, hyperboles etc, while usually ignoring actual numbers (not a shot at you, just an observation).

There is a fair point to be made though, that this is a big loss for Tesla, as their charging network was pretty much the sole remaining advantage over their competition.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#339

Post by yurishimo »

speedgoose wrote: post #276
phkahler wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Gas stations don't have enough to keep a person busy for an entire charge session. You need real shopping or a place to sit down to eat. They will also not be needed in town near your home, since people will just charge at home.

Norway is perhaps a bit special, but this is very common for service stations along the roads or in Oslo to have many fast chargers. You can buy a drink or some food, and most have some space to sit down.

I remember the first time I visited a gas station in Belgium (?) off the highway that actually had 10 or so "standing tables" to eat at from the two restaurant options in the building. We sit for 4+ hours between fill-ups; why do we not see this as the standard in most places, with more limited seating for the elderly/disabled or children who cannot reach a full height standing table?

As an American, it was really eye opening!

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#340

Post by perlgeek »

hnburnsy wrote: post #312
apexalpha wrote: post #135

I understand the ridicule that the EU gets sometimes, and especially so when trying to regulate stuff like AI where it seems the EU wants to regulate more than to create start ups etc... But this is one thing the EU just nailed the hammer into the wood immediatly, and rightly so. I can't even remember the time it was. Maybe 2013? 2014? They just set a standard and everyone, even Tesla, adopted it. Every single EV can…

Serious question is every EU charger outlet billed in a common way, like with cash, an app, debit/credit card, in car screen, with a payment screen, or preconfigured to bill seamlessly? Seems like the billing issues at non Tesla chargers in the US were a large part of the issues..

Here in Germany at least, most chargers accept RFID cards for billing, and basically all through an app.

My only problem with it is that the app that comes with my company's card is total crap (often won't start to charge, and then sees the charging port as being in use for like 5-10 minutes, so you have to wait that long for a second attempt. It's HORRIBLE.)

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