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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#151

Post by eichin »

jader201 wrote: post #25
alsodumb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is standardizing quite nicely too, on Tesla's charging standard. I can't think of a company that is not planning to use Tesla's charger going forward.

Not really. Many Tesla Superchargers are being equipped with Magic Dock, which is perpetuating CCS. More manufacturers may be moving to NACS, but it’s not like chargers are moving away from CCS. If anything, the CCS infrastructure is growing.

How widespread is that really? After the first deployment (where every EV youtuber east of the Mississippi converged on one tesla lot in New York :-) I haven't seen it in tech news since, and looking in the app I see 2 private ("destination") chargers in all of MA, and none in CT...

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#152

Post by ethanbond »

highwaylights wrote: post #148
mupuff1234 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

Honestly I doubt it. Musk already said himself that the company hinges on getting to full self-driving eventually , so it wouldn’t be surprising if every other decision is ultimately in service of that however unlikely it now seems. Either way, I think it’s terrific business. Would you rather have a dependable advantage that helps you stay further ahead of competitors in one industry, or have slightly less of an adva…

Every new manufacturer switching to the Tesla standard further incentivizes e.g. BP, Shell, etc. to offer charging though. I don't see why they'd dominate this space.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#153

Post by evilfred »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #53
grecy wrote: post #2

Stellantis are the only remaining holdout. It seems inevitable they'll jump on board too.

If they are the last domino, they also have the worst negotiation position. Whatever number Tesla says will be their cost.

why would Tesla be involved? NACS is an open standard

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#155

Post by tw04 »

phkahler wrote: post #140
adrianN wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.

>> Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms. Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Building out a "platform" to sell commodity electrons is utterly stupid. Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat.

>Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model.

Sort of like gas stations weren't a viable long-term business model?

> Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat.

So you should put your chargers near convenient amenities... like a convenience store... like a gas station?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#156

Post by enragedcacti »

voisin wrote: post #138
paul7986 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?

No. Much longer. And it depends massively on battery size too since they vary quite a bit more than gas tank sizes. https://insideevs.com/reviews/516438/tesla-supercharger-comp...

Battery size only really matters if you are maxing out the charger since the amount of power the battery can take scales with kwhs. To be fair being charger limited is pretty common currently, but in ideal conditions a larger battery will be able to charge more miles/minute than a smaller one.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#157

Post by Rebelgecko »

paul7986 wrote: post #130
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?

It depends on the EV and the supercharger. But in general it'll be slower than pumping gas. My CCS car takes around 15-18 minutes to get to 80% (because of diminishing charging curves, with most (all?) cars it's faster to do 5 charging stops from 0-80% than 4 charging stops from 0-100).

I haven't done a super long road trip in an EV, but for drives with 1-2 charging stops it doesn't feel that different than ICE cars, especially if have passengers and invariably end up waiting for everyone to go to the bathroom, get a snack, etc. Only exception is places like quartzite where there can be a long line of EVs waiting to charge.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#158

Post by squarefoot »

intrasight wrote: post #100
1970-01-01 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual gains are never discussed. It could be massive or much less than you expect.

At least they are not charging a license fee for the connector.

Probably having the brand Tesla exposed to other cars drivers will be enough PR.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#159

Post by conjecTech »

InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true.

I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the added charging revenue outweighs that for now, but long-term, it seems like it will undoubtedly be a negative.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#160

Post by sbininit »

bluGill wrote: post #105
adrianN wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The design of the car is only loosely related to the skateboard that contains the battery and the drivetrain.

Skateboard makes even less sense for EVs than for ICEs. in an ICE you have a large engine and various axels that have to be in specific places. With an EV you have more room to move the motors around where they makes sense. While you need a lot of batteries, each cell is small, so you want to put things like seats in the car first and then add cells anywhere there is extra room.

Yeah some cars (like the polestar) have really shallow rear-seat legroom, which was a total showstopper. They could have move some of those batteries to the trunk/frunk
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