Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure residential 3-phase in Europe is 400V phase-to-phase, it's 220V phase-to-neutral.
make that 230V (min.) or rather 240V (nominal).
230V nominal in EU
Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
131–140 of 653 posts
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Theoretically perhaps, but practically, most single phase AC EV chargers on Europe/Australia etc. are only 7 kW but 3-phase are 11 or 22 kW (both 7 kW and 22 kW are about 30 A per phase, but three phase you obviously have three of them, so three times the power!). That’s not “gaining nothing”!
While sometimes you get more power on 3 phase, that is only about the size of the feed and nothing to do with 3 phase.
With three phases in Europe you get 400v, which means less amps for the same power, which means lower losses or thinner cables?
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US Objectively false in so many domains. Americans aren’t smarter than other people. But we are very good at organising resources for novel pursuits.
There is no reason other countries couldn't do that. Many are too poor, but they could get rich (how is an open question) and do it.
> no reason other countries couldn't do that
Yes, there are. A simple example is Latin America. Americans are willing to risk a recession, which predominantly falls on the poor, to stave off inflation. We’re slow to regulate and quick to let immigrate (even if we sing a song and dance about it, constantly) in a way most polities won’t tolerate. These come at costs that aren’t bearable for many, including in America. But the counterpoint is a tremendous capacity to reorganise and marshal resources.
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
3 phase is very common in the US. Most single family houses don't have it, everything else is likely to have it. For chargers 3 phase gains nothing. For induction motors 3 phase is useful - but in the modern world even where you have 3 phase you often will run the power through a VFC just so you get control of RPM. For a few other things 3 phase is nice because there is always one phase that isn't near zero to draw p…
3 phase typically has 400V between the phases and neutral in Europe, the phases don't gain you anything, but the voltage does.
3 phases give you three times amount the power as 1-phase with only 4 wires (instead of 2 in a single phase, or 3x the thickness).
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#135I understand the ridicule that the EU gets sometimes, and especially so when trying to regulate stuff like AI where it seems the EU wants to regulate more than to create start ups etc...
But this is one thing the EU just nailed the hammer into the wood immediatly, and rightly so.
I can't even remember the time it was. Maybe 2013? 2014? They just set a standard and everyone, even Tesla, adopted it.
Every single EV can plug into every charger. Whether it's a public one, a private at the office, a Tesla supercharger or a home charger at your home. Plug and go!
Glad to see NA finally agrees on a standard now. This can only help EV adoption. Especially given the sorry state of other chargers than Tesla's over there.
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> which will eventually be all cars God I hope that day is long long in the future given the current ecosystem surrounding this crap. The last thing I want to add to my car is the multi-variant USB-C, thunderbolt, lightning adapter bullshit with accounts and subscriptions. It's the very worst of tech bro culture applied to critical infrastructure. What if the car makers owned and/or could strike deals with specific g…
If ICE cars were invented today, every manufacturer would try to lock you in with their own shape of fuel tank opening. Have a toyota? Use the round fuel pumps. Ford? You need to find a pump with a notch on the end of the end so it's compatible with your tank. BMW? Two notches--find a different fuel station! Jeep? Square shaped pump! Or you need to keep a set of $100 dongle adapters in your trunk at all times. $400 f…
Oh I know, it's not a condemnation of EVs the technology. The actual technology is amazing. It's just that companies can't seem to get out of their own way and our government is completely inept at forcing everyone to be less shitty.
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would be a bit ridiculous to penalise Tesla as a monopolist given they virtually pioneered the industry in America within the last generation.
This is just imagining future scenarios, but I don’t see an inherent contradiction. That’s one way to end up with a monopoly.
Sure? It’s just weird to set the precedent that opening up your standard means you’re now a monopolist.
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#138I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.
How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?
No. Much longer. And it depends massively on battery size too since they vary quite a bit more than gas tank sizes.
https://insideevs.com/reviews/516438/tesla-supercharger-comp...
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#139Logical move. North American Charging Standard does not exist in Europe making car re-import much more difficult.
So there is actually a technical reason here. NACS isn't a thing in Europe because 3 Phase power is much more common in Europe. NACS does not support 3 Phase power, and as a result, is not that common in Europe.
On the other hand, there are A LOT more volkswagens and audis in europe (and even some porsches) than teslas. Add seat, opel and škoda to this, and the number is even higher.
Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.
I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.
>> Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.
Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Building out a "platform" to sell commodity electrons is utterly stupid. Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat.