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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#141

Post by sib »

InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

Not sure how much margin that Tesla will be making on the charging. I don't think the financial details of these deals have been disclosed. Adding lots of revenue but with no margin doesn't really add value to Tesla.

(Of course, to the extent they get funding from the government or other manufacturers to offset the capex required for building out more stations and chargers, that's great for Tesla & anyone.)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#142

Post by CamperBob2 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85
JoshTko wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, last thing Tesla wants is antitrust oversight for monopolistic practice.

Would be a bit ridiculous to penalise Tesla as a monopolist given they virtually pioneered the industry in America within the last generation.

Mr. Rockefeller from Standard Oil on line 2.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#143

Post by njovin »

paul7986 wrote: post #130
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?

Depends on the EV. A few years back I did a ~400 mile road trip in a Model Y. We had to make one top-up charging stop which took about 15 minutes. We walked to a spot and got a snack while we waited.

A similarly-sized ICE vehicle could have possibly done the trip without a stop, or required a quick 5-minute top-up depending on conditions.

I've done lots of long road trips in ICE vehicles and we usually stop to walk around and stretch for about the same amount of time and with the same frequency as charge stops call for.

If you're trying to shave every minute off of a trip you'd come out behind, but IMO you're a glutton for punishment if you're trying to race through a 1000+ mile road trip without stopping for more than 5 minutes at a time.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#144

Post by Spivak »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #126
Spivak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which will eventually be all cars God I hope that day is long long in the future given the current ecosystem surrounding this crap. The last thing I want to add to my car is the multi-variant USB-C, thunderbolt, lightning adapter bullshit with accounts and subscriptions. It's the very worst of tech bro culture applied to critical infrastructure. What if the car makers owned and/or could strike deals with specific g…

Blaming collective action problems on techbro culture. History would like some of your time :)

Blaming cultural problems on culture -- yes that's correct.

Use whatever words you'd like if you don't like tech bro as the colloquium. But the intersection of this behavior of end-to-end control and things labeled "tech" and headed by "tech people" is very nearly a sphere.

For the people whose whole shtick is building autonomous systems we are remarkably bad at letting go and letting those systems be autonomous when it benefits the customer.

It's like we all watched Robocop, a film about how terrible it would be if an autonomous system created for the improvement of society at large was programmed to always obey the will of its creators for their personal gain and said, "That's a great idea, I could productize that."

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#145

Post by qayxc »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #131
qayxc wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make that 230V (min.) or rather 240V (nominal).

230V nominal in EU

You're right, though tolerances allow for up 253V since 2009. I usually measure between 235V and 242V from the wall.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#146

Post by gabrielhidasy »

SEJeff wrote: post #46
bluGill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 phase is very common in the US. Most single family houses don't have it, everything else is likely to have it. For chargers 3 phase gains nothing. For induction motors 3 phase is useful - but in the modern world even where you have 3 phase you often will run the power through a VFC just so you get control of RPM. For a few other things 3 phase is nice because there is always one phase that isn't near zero to draw p…

The NACS standard still only supports single phase power. It was the electrician who installed my home charger that said it is why they weren't in Europe homes.

NACS supports either one or two phases for AC charging which would be used in most home chargers. A really high power charger would use DC with the AC/DC conversion happening before (and that could be from a three-phase source)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#147

Post by apexalpha »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #50
mschuster91 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because CCS1 only supports 1 phase AC because the usual standard of residential power is 1 phase AC. In contrast, in Europe 3 phase AC is the standard, so it makes sense to support that advantage (especially the 400V across the legs) in charging vehicles.

Three phase power is not “the standard” in Europe. It’s more available perhaps, but certainly not the default residential hookup.

in The Netherlands is absolutely is the default.

My home, built in 1971, had 1 phase connected to it but the power company already buried the 2 extra copper wires for 3-phase hookup, requiring only a new meter for 3 phase to be installed.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#148

Post by highwaylights »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #64
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

Honestly I doubt it. Musk already said himself that the company hinges on getting to full self-driving eventually, so it wouldn’t be surprising if every other decision is ultimately in service of that however unlikely it now seems.

Either way, I think it’s terrific business. Would you rather have a dependable advantage that helps you stay further ahead of competitors in one industry, or have slightly less of an advantage (when you’re already in the lead) and get to dominate a whole second industry too (gas stations, for which superchargers have no peers in the EV world).

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#149

Post by gabrielhidasy »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #63
bluGill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 phase is very common in the US. Most single family houses don't have it, everything else is likely to have it. For chargers 3 phase gains nothing. For induction motors 3 phase is useful - but in the modern world even where you have 3 phase you often will run the power through a VFC just so you get control of RPM. For a few other things 3 phase is nice because there is always one phase that isn't near zero to draw p…

3 phases give you 3x the power for only 2x the amount of copper

And two phases give you 2x the power for the same copper.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#150

Post by toomuchtodo »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #108
toomuchtodo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://electrek.co/2023/08/25/tesla-supercharger-network-bi... ("Tesla Supercharger network to become $10 to $20 billion a year business, says Wedbush") > With Tesla now having a fleet of millions of vehicles using the network and opening it up to EVs from other automakers, financial analysts are starting to see the Supercharger network has a massive business that is going to partly replace gas stations, and they wa…

Estimates aren't gains. Something in their financials report would be a much better and accurate representation of gains.

Valuations and future revenue expectations are based on forecasting, based on currently available information.
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