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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#21

Post by stetrain »

cr3ative wrote: post #4

...in America. Europe here quite nicely standardising on CCS2.

CCS1 is worse than CCS2 in a couple of ways. The latching mechanism is external which is bulkier and more fragile, and it doesn't support 3-phase AC charging.

NACS does everything CCS1 does in a more compact package with an internal vehicle locking mechanism similar to what CCS2 uses. It also doesn't support 3-phase AC charging but this isn't very common in light commercial or residential service in the US.

NACS / J3400 will likely stay a North American standard though, or maybe migrate to a few other markets like S. Korea which have also used CCS1. That lack of 3-phase support makes it a non-starter in Europe and CCS2 works perfectly fine there.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#23

Post by clouddrover »

valine wrote: post #17
clouddrover wrote: post #6

> Volkswagen Group, which also owns Audi, Porsche, and Scout Motors, is finally doing what nearly every other automaker has already done: announce its intention to adopt Tesla’s electric vehicle charging standard. The reporting around this has been so poor. NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end. What's happening is that CCS has won the EV charging protocol wars, Tesla's plug is being standardized as CCS type 3 (ak…

When people talk about standardizing the charge port they’re talking about the shape of the port not the protocol. Tesla has supported the CCS protocol for years now. The Tesla port is vastly superior to the CCS type 1 port. They should get credit for making it an open standard.

Yes, people aren't aware of what's happening. That's a consequence of lazy reporting.

Tesla's charging standard is being dropped and CCS will be used by everyone. It's a shame North America still has years of plug incompatibilities and adapter fiddling to look forward to.

Europe really got EV charging standardization right. The European EV infrastructure is much further advanced than the North American infrastructure thanks in part to sensible standardization.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#25

Post by jader201 »

alsodumb wrote: post #8
cr3ative wrote: post #4

...in America. Europe here quite nicely standardising on CCS2.

US is standardizing quite nicely too, on Tesla's charging standard. I can't think of a company that is not planning to use Tesla's charger going forward.

Not really. Many Tesla Superchargers are being equipped with Magic Dock, which is perpetuating CCS.

More manufacturers may be moving to NACS, but it’s not like chargers are moving away from CCS. If anything, the CCS infrastructure is growing.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#26

Post by stetrain »

lnsru wrote: post #5

Logical move. North American Charging Standard does not exist in Europe making car re-import much more difficult.

There were already two connector standards for NA and EU, CCS Combo 1 vs CCS Combo 2.

NACS / J3400 is a different connector but still uses CCS communication protocols. So there isn't a huge market differentiation border in swapping CCS Combo 1 to NACS.

There is an additional requirement with NACS that the vehicle needs to route both AC and DC charging over the same connector pins.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#28

Post by mschuster91 »

cr3ative wrote: post #4

...in America. Europe here quite nicely standardising on CCS2.

Yeah, because CCS1 only supports 1 phase AC because the usual standard of residential power is 1 phase AC.

In contrast, in Europe 3 phase AC is the standard, so it makes sense to support that advantage (especially the 400V across the legs) in charging vehicles.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#29

Post by bluGill »

SEJeff wrote: post #19
lnsru wrote: post #5

Logical move. North American Charging Standard does not exist in Europe making car re-import much more difficult.

So there is actually a technical reason here. NACS isn't a thing in Europe because 3 Phase power is much more common in Europe. NACS does not support 3 Phase power, and as a result, is not that common in Europe.

3 phase is very common in the US. Most single family houses don't have it, everything else is likely to have it.

For chargers 3 phase gains nothing. For induction motors 3 phase is useful - but in the modern world even where you have 3 phase you often will run the power through a VFC just so you get control of RPM. For a few other things 3 phase is nice because there is always one phase that isn't near zero to draw power from, but where that matters you can work around it with a few capacitors.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#30

Post by maxdo »

clouddrover wrote: post #6

> Volkswagen Group, which also owns Audi, Porsche, and Scout Motors, is finally doing what nearly every other automaker has already done: announce its intention to adopt Tesla’s electric vehicle charging standard. The reporting around this has been so poor. NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end. What's happening is that CCS has won the EV charging protocol wars, Tesla's plug is being standardized as CCS type 3 (ak…

It's the opposite. Every single EV car that is sold right now in North America except Tesla will need a retrofit. Read the article you shared. It's for use on other charging stations.

In the picture, you see a dead charger adapter converted into a new Tesla standard one. It's a major pain for other brand EV owners

In 1 year, almost at every charging station, you will have to deal with plugging converters in snow, rain, etc, making sure communication works.

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