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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#121

Post by izacus »

bwat49 wrote: post #119
mupuff1234 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

Fragmented infrastructure benefits no one. Imagine if you could only fill up your ICE vehicle at shell stations because of your vehicle's brand. Fragmentation of the charging infrastructure puts a hard limit on EV adoption, they will never replace ICE vehicles unless the infrastructure becomes as ubiquitous as gas stations.

It benefits Tesla right now - because people bought Teslas due to their charging network. It'll stop being a big benefit and that's great for competition.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#122

Post by pornel »

_ea1k wrote: post #16
cr3ative wrote: post #4

...in America. Europe here quite nicely standardising on CCS2.

I suspect the US would have done the same thing, if manufacturers had done CCS2 instead of CCS1. Also would have helped if the US had done "bring your own cable", which seems to be common in Europe. Interestingly, the new NACS standardization process seems to be encouraging that as well.

BYOC is only for slow AC charging. All CCS2 DC chargers have cables built-in.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#123

Post by phkahler »

InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

Nah. The real win here is for the public. The "standard" charging plug and cables weigh a LOT, so much that my elderly mother probably couldn't use one. The "standard" also mandates the use of PowerLine Communication chips even though the signal is not over the high power conductor.

We are all better off just biting the bullet now and changing everything over to the Tesla plug.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#124

Post by skybrian »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85
JoshTko wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, last thing Tesla wants is antitrust oversight for monopolistic practice.

Would be a bit ridiculous to penalise Tesla as a monopolist given they virtually pioneered the industry in America within the last generation.

This is just imagining future scenarios, but I don’t see an inherent contradiction. That’s one way to end up with a monopoly.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#125

Post by amluto »

clouddrover wrote: post #32
maxdo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite. Every single EV car that is sold right now in North America except Tesla will need a retrofit. Read the article you shared. It's for use on other charging stations. In the picture, you see a dead charger adapter converted into a new Tesla standard one. It's a major pain for other brand EV owners In 1 year, almost at every charging station, you will have to deal with plugging converters in snow, rai…

> Every single EV car that is sold right now in North America except Tesla will need a retrofit. No, they won't need a new ECU because they are already CCS cars. They'll need a dumb adapter if they can't get a new inlet installed.

I expect a degree of intelligence to be important in the adapter. Specifically, unless the adapter is rated for the highest possible current and voltage that the physical form factor can support (1kV, 600A? Is there even a pre-ordained limit? Tesla reports that they’ve tested NACS up to quite impressive voltages and currents.), then the adapter needs to tell the car and/or charger to limit voltage and current. Otherwise it risks arcing and/or overheating.

Also, whatever water cooling magic keeps the charger plug and its terminals cool won’t cool the adapter.

Even the little charge-a-J1772-car-off-a-Tesla-level-2-charger hack adapters are generally dumb adapters designed for 40A or so and are not safe if connected to a full-spec 80A EVSE.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#126

Post by mensetmanusman »

Spivak wrote: post #89
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

> which will eventually be all cars God I hope that day is long long in the future given the current ecosystem surrounding this crap. The last thing I want to add to my car is the multi-variant USB-C, thunderbolt, lightning adapter bullshit with accounts and subscriptions. It's the very worst of tech bro culture applied to critical infrastructure. What if the car makers owned and/or could strike deals with specific g…

Blaming collective action problems on techbro culture. History would like some of your time :)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#127

Post by aik »

phkahler wrote: post #123
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

Nah. The real win here is for the public. The "standard" charging plug and cables weigh a LOT, so much that my elderly mother probably couldn't use one. The "standard" also mandates the use of PowerLine Communication chips even though the signal is not over the high power conductor. We are all better off just biting the bullet now and changing everything over to the Tesla plug.

Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#128

Post by ajsnigrutin »

bluGill wrote: post #66
stephen_g wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically perhaps, but practically, most single phase AC EV chargers on Europe/Australia etc. are only 7 kW but 3-phase are 11 or 22 kW (both 7 kW and 22 kW are about 30 A per phase, but three phase you obviously have three of them, so three times the power!). That’s not “gaining nothing”!

While sometimes you get more power on 3 phase, that is only about the size of the feed and nothing to do with 3 phase.

But you have three feeds giving you three phases to use, so 3x the power available to you. Out here, even electric stoves (with ovens) have 3 phase connection options and tankless water heaters almost exclusively come as 3 phase models.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#129

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thiago_fm wrote: post #118
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US Objectively false in so many domains. Americans aren’t smarter than other people. But we are very good at organising resources for novel pursuits.

We'll see if that talent will still exist once the money printing press stops working. Americans are great at many things, just like everybody else.

> that talent will still exist once the money printing press stops working

This is a tendency that has existed for generations, pre-dating the invention of central banking. It comes with tremendous costs—we see that in our inequality and homelessness. But the counterpoint to that is individual agency, regulatory reticence and capacity for innovation (and the blending of ideas, given America is a multigenerational multiethnic nation) that is relatively capital-intensive for others to match.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#130

Post by paul7986 »

InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?
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