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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#71

Post by adrianN »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #64
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#72

Post by _ea1k »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #43
valine wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about standardizing the charge port they’re talking about the shape of the port not the protocol. Tesla has supported the CCS protocol for years now. The Tesla port is vastly superior to the CCS type 1 port. They should get credit for making it an open standard.

No one is installing CCS1 any more surely?

I think they will keep installing them for another few years. NEVI requires it and there are still quite a few CCS1 cars on the road. All of the cars that are switching will still ship with the CCS1 port next year too. They don't fully switch until 2025.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#73

Post by bluGill »

jankeymeulen wrote: post #45
bluGill wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 phase is very common in the US. Most single family houses don't have it, everything else is likely to have it. For chargers 3 phase gains nothing. For induction motors 3 phase is useful - but in the modern world even where you have 3 phase you often will run the power through a VFC just so you get control of RPM. For a few other things 3 phase is nice because there is always one phase that isn't near zero to draw p…

3 phase typically has 400V between the phases and neutral in Europe, the phases don't gain you anything, but the voltage does.

Voltage is solely a matter of how the transformer is wound. In the US you get a choice when you contact the power company, 208, 240, 440, and 480 are all voltages I've personally seen in the US, depending on the area (not all utilities will provide all voltages, so there are some I haven't seen)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#74

Post by valine »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #43
valine wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about standardizing the charge port they’re talking about the shape of the port not the protocol. Tesla has supported the CCS protocol for years now. The Tesla port is vastly superior to the CCS type 1 port. They should get credit for making it an open standard.

No one is installing CCS1 any more surely?

CCS1 is still dominate in North America. CCS2 only got traction in Europe.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#75

Post by [deleted] »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #64
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#76

Post by _ea1k »

maxdo wrote: post #54
clouddrover wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people aren't aware of what's happening. That's a consequence of lazy reporting. Tesla's charging standard is being dropped and CCS will be used by everyone. It's a shame North America still has years of plug incompatibilities and adapter fiddling to look forward to. Europe really got EV charging standardization right. The European EV infrastructure is much further advanced than the North American infrastructure…

Stop misleading people. The opposite is happening. Tesla is opening their network to other brands. Ford and a few other car makers have already agreed. In new cars made from 2025, you can go to the only properly working charging network, plug in the car, and leave with no credit card hustle. Basically, like Tesla had forever. It's a shame other brands didn't adopt a much better Tesla adapter as a standard. It's much…

I'm not sure what you mean w/r/t the adapters. It sounds like most manufacturers will just use Tesla supplied adapters. I doubt they will be very bulky. They might even be easier to use than native CCS1. :)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#77

Post by bluGill »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #64
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

If Tesla hasn't played nice they would have lost too as everyone else rolled out the CCS standard cars networks would have responded and most chargers wouldn't support your Tesla.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#78

Post by mupuff1234 »

adrianN wrote: post #71
mupuff1234 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.

Maybe, but a charging network is not quite a trillion dollar business, not to mention that the charging network will also become a commodity (especially since the charging protocol is open)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#79

Post by jgilias »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #50
mschuster91 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because CCS1 only supports 1 phase AC because the usual standard of residential power is 1 phase AC. In contrast, in Europe 3 phase AC is the standard, so it makes sense to support that advantage (especially the 400V across the legs) in charging vehicles.

Three phase power is not “the standard” in Europe. It’s more available perhaps, but certainly not the default residential hookup.

Europe is big. Where I live it’s pretty much the default. You can get a 1-phase connection, but you basically need to downgrade to it, and all the default wiring would be done in a way to support 3 phases if needed.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#80

Post by qayxc »

phs2501 wrote: post #60
jankeymeulen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 phase typically has 400V between the phases and neutral in Europe, the phases don't gain you anything, but the voltage does.

Pretty sure residential 3-phase in Europe is 400V phase-to-phase, it's 220V phase-to-neutral.

make that 230V (min.) or rather 240V (nominal).
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