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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#331

Post by newaccount74 »

saxman0001 wrote: post #29
insaneirish wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wearing PPE is miserable. The respiratory masks that reliably keep silica out of your lungs are painful. I completely disagree. Is it less comfortable than not wearing a mask? For sure. Do I consider it a burden to wear a P100 respirator when dealing with silica? Nope.

How many hours a day do you typically spend wearing your respirator? Have you had a professional fit test to see whether your respirator is making an adequate seal? Many folks wear these things far too loosely to pass a basic fitment test. How many hours a day do you spend moving objects that weight >20lbs while wearing your respirator? How often do you work on days >30C while decked out in your respirator? Do you ke…

> Do you keep your face shaved baby smooth at all times?

I have a short beard (5mm) and the 3M silicon masks [1] still have a very tight seal. So I don't think a smooth shave is necessary.

[1]: https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/p/d/b00039314/

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#332

Post by Reason077 »

xxs wrote: post #303
Reason077 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although good materials, acrylics and laminates are not quite as durable as engineered stone countertops. They tend to show more wear over time, and are more prone to damage from extreme heat etc. Some may consider the look and feel of stone to be more "premium". But of course they're cheaper and lighter and probably still cheaper than stone even if you end up replacing them a couple of times over the lifetime of the…

Polishing, sanding concrete will produce tons of tiny dust particles just as cutting the stone.

Yes, but the dust from concrete or natural stone doesn’t seem to be anything like as dangerous as the dust from engineered stone.

(You still should use PPE and avoid inhaling it, of course!)

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#333

Post by globular-toast »

bowsamic wrote: post #274
stephen_g wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredible how bad tradies are at PPE. When my solar panels were being installed on my house, the electrician was happily about to drill through asbestos cement eave lining before I stopped him, and at least made him put on a disposable P2 respirator mask I had lying around. But he still released asbestos fibres into the air and the ceiling cavity where his colleagues were working, and will have got it on his cl…

Sadly no better here in Germany, which surprised me. In the UK health and safety is much more extreme. Here in Germany it’s rare to see workers taking any kind of safety precautions

But still the "real men" on UK building sites and trades shun PPE. It's just a dumb man thing. I often wonder if they think every day there's a chance of a woman seeing and thinking how manly and hot they are for not even needing wimpy protection. Here the construction vehicles have a green flashing light on to indicate that the user has a seat belt on. They get round that by just buckling up then sitting on the belt. Tbh that one seems a bit silly but there's probably a good reason for it.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#334

Post by tinco »

ktm5j wrote: post #330
stephen_g wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredible how bad tradies are at PPE. When my solar panels were being installed on my house, the electrician was happily about to drill through asbestos cement eave lining before I stopped him, and at least made him put on a disposable P2 respirator mask I had lying around. But he still released asbestos fibres into the air and the ceiling cavity where his colleagues were working, and will have got it on his cl…

Okay well you clearly have a great life with a lot to live for, but that's not really the case for everyone. How about you don't judge people you're calling "tradies" for how they decide to live their lives.

Did you even read the article? These people are very young, and deeply regret the way they decided to live their lives. And tradies is not some kind of slur, it's how they refer to their colleagues across the trades. And wtf is up with just assuming these people who don't wear PPE don't think they have a great life with a lot to live for, there's literally a 35yr old dude with 3 loving kids in one of the pictures of affected persons.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#335

Post by newaccount74 »

amluto wrote: post #32
geetee wrote: post #4

I don't think I've ever seen a tradesperson wearing PPE. Recent example: our neighbor had some stonework done, and these guys were just casually hanging out in clouds of cement and stone dust.

PPE is the wrong solution here. Tools that don’t produce dust are the right solution. Wet tile saws and waterjets can cut stone (and engineered stone) with essentially no dust. An angle grinder with a dust shroud and HEPA filtered extractor (total cost starts around $400) can do the same thing a regular angle grinder does but with a lot less dust. And one really can work all day in a pouch-style N95 mask. They don’t…

Angle grinders with dust extraction hoods are extremely effective. I've used one to cut tile, and to cut slits into walls... almost zero dust. It's incredible.

Saves a lot of cleanup time too!

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#336

Post by TylerE »

Too wrote: post #268
TylerE wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are - and the article mentions it. Alterations years later will still Produce dust.

Countertops are isolated units that can be removed safely without damaging them. Worst alteration I can think of is drilling a hole, another small operation that you can cover with water and vacuum. Opening up a dry wall on the other hand, will inevitably dust up the whole house.

Install a new sink, gotta enlarge the opening, make lots of dust...

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#337

Post by wkipling »

kelnos wrote: post #189
lathiat wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building industry in Australia is filled almost entirely with independent contractors. Mostly single people, working on a contract to the house builder/project manager. So there is little room for that. But I agree, this would be good. But I think the decision here is basically that, in practice, it's very difficult to actually get people to follow the required practices, in practice. As has been shown in practic…

In this case I guess the independent contractor ends up accepting the responsibility for not taking their own safety precautions seriously: they get silicosis. I feel for the people who were early in the industry who had no idea this could happen to them, but now that it's known, if a contractor doesn't feel like taking appropriate precautions, then they get what they deserve. Banning an entire industry because peopl…

Ya and the tax payer foots the medical bill. Show some humanity

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#338

Post by RCitronsBroker »

vintermann wrote: post #292
anon-sre-srm wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping dust down with water sprayers should be a thing. Also, there should be particulate counters and VOC sensors all around sites to indicate what level of PPE is non-obvious but needed.

I've noticed that a lot in public outdoor construction where I live the last ~10 years. Whenever there's the slightest chance of dust, they have giant water mist spraying machines in addition to the PPE.

may i ask where you live? I’ve worked outdoor construction as a teen for a while, even up till now, I’ve never seen mist sprayers in use round here in Germany.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#339

Post by hereme888 »

Hawxy wrote: post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

Would you think that imposing heavy fines, and perhaps even criminal penalties when workers are not properly informed, would be a better alternative to banning an economically advantageous product?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#340

Post by bowsamic »

MandieD wrote: post #328
bowsamic wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly no better here in Germany, which surprised me. In the UK health and safety is much more extreme. Here in Germany it’s rare to see workers taking any kind of safety precautions

My dad, who is permanently sunburnt from his half century in construction (and wasn’t terribly into most other safety measures against abstract risks), tsk-tsks the laxity of German road crews allowing workers to wear shorts in the summer. Sturdy jeans go a long way as basic leg protection, and he couldn’t imagine any construction worker in much hotter Texas forgoing them, no matter how much they have to be yelled at…

The main thing I noticed in Germany was open construction sites with little to protect pedestrians walking through, lack of any kind of masks when working with fumes or dust, no ear protection, and no hardhats.
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