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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#291

Post by repiret »

thedays wrote: post #256
drivebyadvice wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The talk in the trade is that asbestos is way overblown and it mostly affected people installing it in ships for the Navy. They worked in tight spaces with lots of asbestos in the air, lining the ship and its pipes with it, all day every day. I don't know how true that is but I've heard the same exact story from several different contractors. I do know that getting those linoleum/asbestos floor tiles ripped up will c…

Many people underestimate the risks from asbestos as the disease can take 20-40 years to develop after exposure but it shouldn’t be underestimated. Asbestosis killed over 3,600 people in 2015. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestosis Asbestos has affected all sorts or people, not just in the Navy. A close relative of mine who was a plumber has been diagnosed with it and it is an awful disease. This woman is dying f…

It’s also that relatively few people are affected. That’s approximately one in 100,000 people, twice as many people in the United States were murdered in 2015. It is really easy to know nobody who died from asbestos.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#292

Post by vintermann »

anon-sre-srm wrote: post #252
amluto wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contractors with brooms are a huge pet peeve of mine at a construction site. Seriously, WTF? You take all the dust and re-suspend as much of it as possible into the air? Every construction site should have a HEPA-filtered vacuum with a filter bag. (The bagless kind is to be reserved for special cases that need it, and people should wear respirators when emptying it, TYVM.). Brooms are for non-vacuumable debris only,…

Keeping dust down with water sprayers should be a thing. Also, there should be particulate counters and VOC sensors all around sites to indicate what level of PPE is non-obvious but needed.

I've noticed that a lot in public outdoor construction where I live the last ~10 years. Whenever there's the slightest chance of dust, they have giant water mist spraying machines in addition to the PPE.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#293

Post by lostlogin »

drivebyadvice wrote: post #226
stephen_g wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredible how bad tradies are at PPE. When my solar panels were being installed on my house, the electrician was happily about to drill through asbestos cement eave lining before I stopped him, and at least made him put on a disposable P2 respirator mask I had lying around. But he still released asbestos fibres into the air and the ceiling cavity where his colleagues were working, and will have got it on his cl…

The talk in the trade is that asbestos is way overblown and it mostly affected people installing it in ships for the Navy. They worked in tight spaces with lots of asbestos in the air, lining the ship and its pipes with it, all day every day. I don't know how true that is but I've heard the same exact story from several different contractors. I do know that getting those linoleum/asbestos floor tiles ripped up will c…

I used to make a living scanning the lungs of people who were young enough to have been told the risks.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#294

Post by lostlogin »

repiret wrote: post #291
thedays wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people underestimate the risks from asbestos as the disease can take 20-40 years to develop after exposure but it shouldn’t be underestimated. Asbestosis killed over 3,600 people in 2015. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestosis Asbestos has affected all sorts or people, not just in the Navy. A close relative of mine who was a plumber has been diagnosed with it and it is an awful disease. This woman is dying f…

It’s also that relatively few people are affected. That’s approximately one in 100,000 people, twice as many people in the United States were murdered in 2015. It is really easy to know nobody who died from asbestos.

Yeah, but I don’t claim murder risk is overblown and run around badlands like I’m invincible.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#295

Post by xxs »

Turskarama wrote: post #177
schneems wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with “always wear a p100” is that they’re not comfortable in an unventilated uncooled house which is where a lot of construction happens. If everyone is wearing one you also need to take more breaks which eats into time to do the job. The industry is set up so you only get paid for doing the job. If doing it unsafely means doing it faster or being more comfortable then a lot of small time contractors will…

You make it illegal to do the wrong thing and have surprise audits. Losing your license is a pretty strong motivator to do it properly.

How do you do a surprise audit in a customers house?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#296

Post by tedk-42 »

thedays wrote: post #256
drivebyadvice wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The talk in the trade is that asbestos is way overblown and it mostly affected people installing it in ships for the Navy. They worked in tight spaces with lots of asbestos in the air, lining the ship and its pipes with it, all day every day. I don't know how true that is but I've heard the same exact story from several different contractors. I do know that getting those linoleum/asbestos floor tiles ripped up will c…

Many people underestimate the risks from asbestos as the disease can take 20-40 years to develop after exposure but it shouldn’t be underestimated. Asbestosis killed over 3,600 people in 2015. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestosis Asbestos has affected all sorts or people, not just in the Navy. A close relative of mine who was a plumber has been diagnosed with it and it is an awful disease. This woman is dying f…

I'm skeptical of the story. Husband wears asbestos ridden clothes all day, maybe wears PPE and what not, but we've tied it the cancer the wife has because of her exposure to the clothes while handling them in the wash?

Even if the husband took off his clothes, separately bagged them and then handed them to his wife to clean, it's hard to see how his exposure is less to the point where only she was diagnosed.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#297

Post by philjohn »

My kitchen has engineered stone, and the people who came to fit it took precautions - all cutting was done outside (it was raining, but they had a marquee that went up), heavy duty vacuums to suck up any dust, wet cutting and wearing the proper PPE.

There are already laws and regulations about employers having to provide the proper PPE - why not enforce that strongly instead of just outright banning a particular item?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#298

Post by xxs »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #210
zaphirplane wrote: post #31

No arguing against the ban I have to say the alternatives from the article are significantly more expensive, not durable or silly (concrete) Anyone had luck with one of the alternatives * Natural stone * Porcelain * Laminate * Tiles * Concrete * Wood/Timber

Why is concrete silly? Concrete is can be a high end material. I guess you could treat to to make it waterproof (it is used in the bare weather after all!)

Requires tons of sanding, similar issue as cutting the stone.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#299

Post by philjohn »

ioseph wrote: post #77
zaphirplane wrote: post #31

No arguing against the ban I have to say the alternatives from the article are significantly more expensive, not durable or silly (concrete) Anyone had luck with one of the alternatives * Natural stone * Porcelain * Laminate * Tiles * Concrete * Wood/Timber

I have a 1940s house with solid timber benchtops, yes they take a little more care (no hot pans) but from what I hear stone counters stain easily anyway. The nice thing about wood is you can just sand it back and refinish and it will look amazing again. Large slabs are pretty expensive these days so when installing a kitchen downstairs we went with finger jointed timber, was cheaper than stone and slightly more expen…

Engineered stone (what is being banned) doesn't stain either.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#300

Post by kragen »

Ekaros wrote: post #287
kragen wrote: post #241

imagine if we'd had these people around in the neolithic; it's well-known that potters often came down with silicosis from exposure to the silica in their clay bodies they would have banned pottery also isn't concrete technically 'engineered stone' i'm puzzled how breathing granite dust instead of so-called engineered stone dust is supposed to be better for you

My guess is that evolution in general has adapted on some level to dust from granite. It was around before land based animals. Just like it has adapted to trace quantities of other poisonous and harmful stuff. Engineered stone might not be exact analogy granite dust, but different in way that prevent these mechanism to be effective.

the studies cited in other parts of this thread found granite dust to be more damaging to lungs, not less so
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