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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#61

Post by ceejayoz »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face.

What make and model is this?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#62

Post by freedomben »

ceejayoz wrote: post #61
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face. What make and model is this?

2023 Toyota Sienna

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#63

Post by dncornholio »

comboy wrote: post #45
rabbits_2002 wrote: post #41

unrelated, but does anyone else start to panic in autonomous vehicles? Every time I have been in a Tesla with autopilot on I immediately feel dread and and impending doom and I get very anxious.

If that the case, perhaps you should feel that way every time you are near a road. Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse. Maybe autopilot just helps you realize that you are not really fully in control about everything that may happen.

Or maybe it's because Autopilot doesn't drive as smooth as a real person and the display shows jagged lines where the road should be.

You really have to trust the system but it's making it hard to do so if you are skeptic.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#64

Post by freedomben »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #40
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

These depend heavily on car. What kind of car is this? The decision to have an annoying beep instead of a soft ding or pop up is stupid but many cars do this. Mine handles seatbelts well and never has a false positive there so it's not a general modern car problem (2021 sonata).

Nice, that's good to know. It's a 2023 Toyota Sienna, and historically Toyota has been the most sensible of cars I've driven (much, much better than Ford). I'm overall pretty pleased with it, minus a few rough edges like mentioned. I'm really glad to hear that it's not a widespread industry issue though.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#65

Post by maxerickson »

gwd wrote: post #9
mackman wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the FCC mandated Apple deploy an update to reduce phones catching fire then yes, I would use the term recall. For bugs that don’t fall into the safety or regulatory compliance category I would not.

But "recall" means "calling back"; normally it means having to actually send a physical replacement. Consider three possible problems with autopilot: 1. There's a structural issue that affects camera systems which can't be fixed in a shop; for instance, something which may cause the camera to come loose which results in blind spots, that's due to the structural issue of the car itself. Tesla has to replace 2 million…

In this context, recall also means "Tesla is doing this as a result of regulatory action".

That it is straightforward is nice for them I guess, but it's less relevant to describing it than it being ordered by the government.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#66

Post by keep_reading »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #51
windexh8er wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this article [0] in October of 2023"...Autopilot have been involved in more than 700 crashes, at least 19 of them fatal, since its introduction in 2014..." [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...

With everyone on their phones now while driving, I wonder if cat photos have killed more.

Pretty sure Instagram thots and memes have killed more than Teslas. I'd bet a lot of money on that.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#67

Post by gwd »

brookst wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "recall" means "calling back"; normally it means having to actually send a physical replacement. Consider three possible problems with autopilot: 1. There's a structural issue that affects camera systems which can't be fixed in a shop; for instance, something which may cause the camera to come loose which results in blind spots, that's due to the structural issue of the car itself. Tesla has to replace 2 million…

Just like “bit” is a term of art in computer science that means something different than “bit” in vernacular language, “recall” has a specific meaning in the automotive industry. A recall is a mandatory fix that the manufacturer is obligated to provide at no charge and to proactively notify customers of. It comes with reporting obligations and long term warranty implications. It might be that industries should not re…

> A recall is a mandatory fix that the manufacturer is obligated to provide at no charge and to proactively notify customers of. It comes with reporting obligations and long term warranty implications.

This does make sense; but I would nonetheless suggest to the auto industry that they change the wording somehow. Fifty years ago any such mandatory fix certainly did mean making manual modifications to each individual car, whether in a service shop or by replacing the whole thing. That's no longer the case, and risks significant public misunderstanding.

Here in the UK they have loads of "archaisms":

- pavement: A place for pedestrians to walk on the side of a road; what Americans call a "sidewalk". Named because 200 years ago, the roads were dirt but sidewalks were paved. Now the roads are paved too, but they kept calling it "pavement"

- public school: A very posh private school; e.g., Eton. Named (as I understand it) because your children were taught in public, rather than in the home by a private tutor / governess / whatever.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#68

Post by freedomben »

Loughla wrote: post #56
freedomben wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people would consider the occasional beep to be a petty minor issue. Ok so you didn't actually read my comment. Granted it was long, but if you're going to reply you should probably actually read it

I read your comment, hyperbole and all. The seat belt dinging is a minor inconvenience. The key fob honking can probably be controlled via your car settings. I turned the honking off on my car, now it softly dings at me once. You're being very, very dramatic, is my point. If the seat belt alarm is that ear splitting, you might want to talk to a doctor?

There wasn't any hyperbole. It's loud enough that it is physically painful, not just annoying. And if you read what I said, it's not the "occasional beep", it's a continual blast of loud tones. And I already looked through the car settings for the horn, and it can't be turned off. Some people on the internet have figured out how to hack it off with OBD2, but if that's what you're suggesting then that's ludicrous and extreme HN bubble. I tried it anyway, but even if it had worked, suggesting people do that is not in any way a reasonable answer to the problem (though is more reasonable than what you're doing, which is dismissing it as not real without even experiencing it).

And thanks for the free medical advice, but I actually have talked to a doctor and I actually have minor hearing loss, not hearing gain or whatever medical "problem" you think might cause people to hear something louder than it is.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#69

Post by InsomniacL »

isodev wrote: post #24
kbos87 wrote: post #11

The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or…

I have trouble with the wording in this case. This would not increase the safety of autopilot but limit the usage to situations closer to the “happy path” of the system.

If we were talking about ensuring the driver is wearing a seatbelt, then I would agree with your point as that has no direct impact on the performance of Autopilot. However, Autopilot requires a 'fully attentive driver' to function as intended. Improving the safety features of a component required for it to function does improve the safety of Autopilot.

Autopilot is a suite of driver assistance features.

The driver assistance features can't assist the driver if there is no driver because they've moved to the backseat.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

freedomben wrote: post #62
ceejayoz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face. What make and model is this?

2023 Toyota Sienna

https://www.justanswer.com/toyota/mb45v-own-23-toyota-coroll...

> Start by sitting in the driver's seat and closing the door. Buckle your seat belt. Turn the ignition to the "On" position without starting the engine. Within a few seconds of turning the ignition on, unbuckle and then re-buckle your seat belt three times, making sure each action is completed quickly. After the third buckle action, keep the seat belt buckled and wait for approximately 20 seconds. You should hear a confirmation sound or see a visual indication that the seat belt warning chime volume can now be adjusted. Use the volume control buttons on the steering wheel or the audio system controls to adjust the volume. Please note that the specific buttons or menu options for adjusting the volume may vary depending on your Corolla's trim level and audio system.

Worth a shot? Sounds like it’s adjustable (presuming Corolla and Sienna share some software) and yours is set a bit high.

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