Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah mate, fixing your cat photos app is not the same thing as fixing software that killed people.
Did it kill people?
Yup
Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
21–30 of 237 posts
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla shouldn't call their driver assist system "Autopilot" either, but here we are.
By the same logic you could say that airplanes shouldn't call their pilot assist system "Autopilot" either, because it requires monitoring and input from pilots who will need to disengage the system and intervene/fly manually in certain scenarios. Autopilot is probably actually quite a good term for it if you actually compare it to a plane Autopilot - you don't expect pilots to be inattentive or away from the control…
Yes, I think if we want to be clear about whether you can legally fall asleep, or not be present at all, while driving, we need to be more explicit about the FSD level.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla shouldn't call their driver assist system "Autopilot" either, but here we are.
By the same logic you could say that airplanes shouldn't call their pilot assist system "Autopilot" either, because it requires monitoring and input from pilots who will need to disengage the system and intervene/fly manually in certain scenarios. Autopilot is probably actually quite a good term for it if you actually compare it to a plane Autopilot - you don't expect pilots to be inattentive or away from the control…
Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#24The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or…
I have trouble with the wording in this case. This would not increase the safety of autopilot but limit the usage to situations closer to the “happy path” of the system.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the FCC mandated Apple deploy an update to reduce phones catching fire then yes, I would use the term recall. For bugs that don’t fall into the safety or regulatory compliance category I would not.
But "recall" means "calling back"; normally it means having to actually send a physical replacement. Consider three possible problems with autopilot: 1. There's a structural issue that affects camera systems which can't be fixed in a shop; for instance, something which may cause the camera to come loose which results in blind spots, that's due to the structural issue of the car itself. Tesla has to replace 2 million…
Just like “bit” is a term of art in computer science that means something different than “bit” in vernacular language, “recall” has a specific meaning in the automotive industry.
A recall is a mandatory fix that the manufacturer is obligated to provide at no charge and to proactively notify customers of. It comes with reporting obligations and long term warranty implications.
It might be that industries should not reuse common words, but IMO it’s a little silly to insist that they only use the most literal and etymologically correct terms for each individual action rather than defining categories that have clear meanings even if a specific action doesn’t perfectly match the most literal reading of the name of the category.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla shouldn't call their driver assist system "Autopilot" either, but here we are.
By the same logic you could say that airplanes shouldn't call their pilot assist system "Autopilot" either, because it requires monitoring and input from pilots who will need to disengage the system and intervene/fly manually in certain scenarios. Autopilot is probably actually quite a good term for it if you actually compare it to a plane Autopilot - you don't expect pilots to be inattentive or away from the control…
Airplane autopilots are something else. You are not allowed to use an autopilot unless you have training and a license for it.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#27We should either stop calling these recalls, or news sites should announce iOS and Android updates in a similar manner also > Apple is recalling 45 Brazilion iPhones and iPads to fix software flaw
The term recall is a term commonly used in the industry to denote a safety related situation that needs mandatory and free remedy.
It is not used in the context of your average update that might give you new eye candy or features, it is just for safety related issues and usually at the behest of a regulator (though a manufacturer can decide to do a voluntary recall to avoid the regulators stepping in).
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#28I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse."
These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face.
The worst of the problem though, is that the system is made to be ultra cautious and thus has a lot of false positives. For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat, I have to plug the seat belt in otherwise it will scream at me once my speed hits 10 MPH. Or if one of my kids decides to change seats so unbuckles and moves to a new chair and buckles in that one, then the car will scream at me unless both buckles are buckled, even if there's no weight in the previous seat. It takes several minutes to timeout and stop, meanwhile it is ear-splittingly loud and so bad that it's unsafe to drive while it's blaring.
There are more things, like if I leave the engine running while walking away with the key fob in my pocket, it will loudly honk twice. This happens constantly. Just this morning it honked ear splittingly loud in my face while I was scraping the ice from my windshield.
Then of course there is the complete disabling of the in-car navigation controls while moving, so my passenger can't configure the map while I'm driving, even though there is absolutely no reason to do that. The net result is also that I end up using my phone which is way less safe because I have to look down and the controls are not even remotely optimized for quick and low-attention use.
Our modern way of maximizing the responsiblity of the manufacturer to prevent misuse and minimizing the liability of the person doing the misusing is leading us to some real bad places IMHO.
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#29The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or…
My 2020 Hyundai has this.
and also tells you if you look tired (and need a coffee). And it actually works pretty well
Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah mate, fixing your cat photos app is not the same thing as fixing software that killed people.
Did it kill people?
From this article [0] in October of 2023"...Autopilot have been involved in more than 700 crashes, at least 19 of them fatal, since its introduction in 2014..."
[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...