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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

theregister.com

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#451

Post by jacquesm »

carlosjobim wrote: post #427
lawn wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to link to how they mention its fine for the employer to force sign you without your consent, and to sign you up for expensive insurance again without your consent.

You could just have found the information yourself, it's not difficult Anyway, here's the link: https://www.sjofolk.se/nyheter/2022/medlem-automatiskt/ Now you have the truth right in front of you. Use a translator if you don't understand it. I'd like for you to apologize for slandering me here in the comments and repeatedly calling me a liar. Will you do that, or will you just down vote and move on, like a hacker?

No, you should apologize because you clearly didn't read the article.

It's just the difference between opt-in and opt-out and you can simply opt-out and anybody that is subject to these arrangements is aware of them. But then you also don't benefit from the union in times of strikes and such. With the very high fraction of employers that sign up for these programs it's pretty common to automatically enroll them in the union for that segment and usually - but probably not always - the HR department will ask you when they onboard you if you want to join the union or not.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#452

Post by jacquesm »

timwaagh wrote: post #190
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

I do not for a second believe ordinary workers can outright buy Teslas in Sweden or Denmark.

They can and they do. Keep in mind that EVs have been very much subsidized and it is much cheaper to drive an EV than a comparable gasoline car.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#453

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

robertlagrant wrote: post #98
bayindirh wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t matter. Even when you’re fully owned by a government, unionization allows you to do this. This is what unionization is, protects the worker regardless of your employer.

Unionization shouldn't be there to disrupt another company. It should be there so you can bargain against your employer. This seems really inappropriate.

It seems like the people of the country were willing to do business with Tesla, but elmu refused to negotiate the terms under which the business would be done. No negotiation = no terms = no business.

If this is what elmu wants, so be it. The people of the country will continue deciding how to run their country without this particular arrogant rich narcissist.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#454

Post by dragonwriter »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #448
vaidhy wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For the purposes of a business negotiation, a strike means to refuse to sell your labor for under a certain price. Picking and choosing who you refuse to sell your labor to quickly encroaches on tribalism that has historically played out with negative consequences. When hollywood actors did a strike in support of the writers, it is to enable business negotiations for the writers, not necessarily for the actors. Work…

>I do not understand the tribalism argument very well. The Hollywood actors' union did not stop selling to a specific entity, they stopped work across the board. Also, I think their most recent strike was because their contract ended. Another difference is also negotiating a pure luxury good (entertainment), versus negotiating access to legally required license plates.

> The Hollywood actors' union did not stop selling to a specific entity, they stopped work across the board.

Not entirely true; they stopped work for firms with which they did not have a labor agreement in place; they reached interim deals with a number of indie productions allowing work to proceed, even while the negotiations with the AMPTP were taking place.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#455

Post by s1artibartfast »

actionfromafar wrote: post #353
s1artibartfast wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely independent of if you think it is good or bad, it is clear that that the postnord sympathy action is not a strike or walkout.

What is it then?

Simply denying service.

If Starbucks workers go to work all day and serve every customer but Bob, that's not a strike or walkout. Those terms have real definitions.

That doesn't mean it isn't a union activity.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#456

Post by beirut_bootleg »

yreg wrote: post #434
beirut_bootleg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By living and working in the U.S.. Most commenters here are wrongly assuming workers in Sweden have as little rights as they do, and probably just as exploited as well.

Well, you are the one wrongly assuming. I am from Slovakia, and we have strong labour laws and strikes all the time. The thing is that government services must be provided to everyone or (if enough people are on strike) not at all.

I'm not sure when Slovakia entered the chat, but I was responding to the parent's question of how could the workers (in Sweden) be prohibited from deciding whether to strike, and was trying to make a point that US commenters go by US laws which do not apply here.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#457

Post by robertlagrant »

eddtries wrote: post #384
robertlagrant wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. I'm not debating the validity of whether people should leave Tesla and go work somewhere else. I'm saying that it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer. A strike - whether because of your circumstances or another's - is you downing tools and stopping working.

> I'm saying that it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer. > is you downing tools and stopping working. These aren't exclusive, it's just they've downed tools and stopped working for the customer the strike is against. People don't join unions for their employer, they join unions for their industry. Therefore a union can strike against an employer while maintaining working for those not breaki…

Tesla isn't breaking a collective agreement.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#458

Post by robertlagrant »

distances wrote: post #442
robertlagrant wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just one company "not playing ball". Spotify, with ten times as many affected employees in Sweden, also doesn't have an agreement. > It's not a step to be taken lightly. Well, there's no balancing downside to doing it this way. Workers still get paid. So they can do this pretty lightly, assuming their employers allow them to just discriminate against certain customers.

> Well, there's no balancing downside to doing it this way. With the dockworkers example there is a massive downside: you mess up all industries doing any export or import. You really need a large buy-in before doing something that can mess up all unrelated industries, and thus potentially employment. In a small country no union operates in a vacuum, you'd quickly lose all goodwill. Edit: I think I answered off your…

To be clear: they are playing by the book. This is a power play to get them to set up a locally-owned subsidiary that runs things. It happens in various places. In China it's even more strongly enforced.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#459

Post by carlosjobim »

jacquesm wrote: post #451
carlosjobim wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just have found the information yourself, it's not difficult Anyway, here's the link: https://www.sjofolk.se/nyheter/2022/medlem-automatiskt/ Now you have the truth right in front of you. Use a translator if you don't understand it. I'd like for you to apologize for slandering me here in the comments and repeatedly calling me a liar. Will you do that, or will you just down vote and move on, like a hacker?

No, you should apologize because you clearly didn't read the article. It's just the difference between opt-in and opt-out and you can simply opt-out and anybody that is subject to these arrangements is aware of them. But then you also don't benefit from the union in times of strikes and such. With the very high fraction of employers that sign up for these programs it's pretty common to automatically enroll them in th…

Opt-in and opt-out? Somebody unilaterally "opts" you into a union, a home insurance contract and in the past "opted" you into being a paying member of a political party. That is extraordinary.

Edit: Apologies for confusing you with the other poster.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#460

Post by robertlagrant »

martin8412 wrote: post #387
robertlagrant wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just one company "not playing ball". Spotify, with ten times as many affected employees in Sweden, also doesn't have an agreement. > It's not a step to be taken lightly. Well, there's no balancing downside to doing it this way. Workers still get paid. So they can do this pretty lightly, assuming their employers allow them to just discriminate against certain customers.

The unions don't go after companies that provide better than CBA to all employees. I don't know if that's the case with Spotify though.

Sorry - what's CBA?
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