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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

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Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#281

Post by psychlops »

fallingknife wrote: post #249
mrweasel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does tend to help. I read somewhere that "Germany is financing the EU, but Bavaria is financing Germany", that probably not entirely true, but it is fun to think about.

You can make a good argument the other way, though. The common currency results in a weaker currency than the Deutsch mark would be if Germany wasn't in the Euro. This results in German exports being much more competitive. So in a way, the EU finances Germany.

Unless, of course, they want to buy imports with their not strong currency.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#282

Post by bmicraft »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #232
eddtries wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't really choose to work, we work because we need to afford food and get health care and rent housing etc. If you live in a town where the job you can get is at Amazon then you don't really "voluntarily" work there, and considering it's pretty simple stuff that hires anyone this is probably the case.

You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. I would say it is worse for people in Chicago that work in the big slaughterhouses and even though they can pursue other opportunities, they still choose to work there. Using the "small town, no options" narrative doesn't really hold water.

> You are always free to pack up your things

It's literally not "free" to move. If it were, many people would've done it a long time ago. Beside the financial cost, there are also very real social costs like losing friends and family - basically your whole support network, as well as putting all of that burden on a potential spouse and maybe kids too.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#283

Post by bmicraft »

waihtis wrote: post #266
derelicta wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I be sarcastic? I just think that if taxation without representation is theft, so must be wealth-creation without representation. But thankfully workers aren't mere wheels, and they can design the said framework themselves! Pretty much like peasants got to imagine parliements so as to gain the natural right to rule over themselves, despite kings and lords trying to convince them it was a silly and dangerous…

> they can design the said framework themselves Congratulations, you have just invented entrepreneurship

_Collective entrepreneurship_. There is a difference.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#284

Post by Hikikomori »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #228
capableweb wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly you measure when you measure "amount of people X by almost X trillion dollars"? How did you manage to arrive at a number that supposedly means productivity of individual employees?

I compared the whole of the EU with the whole of the US in terms of people and GDP and it the numbers say the US is performing better than the EU with a third less people. I'm measuring the success of the US economic model with the EU economic model and the US one is winning by a lot.

Number go up, all that matters.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#285

Post by two_handfuls »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #94
kristofferR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"

That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?

Corporations are led by an even smaller group.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#286

Post by michtzik »

stiray wrote: post #220
pbasista wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Tesla does not need ships to transport Tesla Model Ys from Giga Berlin to Sweden. They can use railroad. Or trucks.

I dont think, you understand the scale of the problem for Musk. If he will poke long enough, ETUC will join - and they will as he is literally twisting their arm. "At present, the ETUC represents almost 45 million workers across Europe, affiliated to 93 national trade union confederations from 41 European countries, and 10 European Trade Union Federations (ETUFs)." At a very modest evaluation, that is 100 million wor…

I did not downvote you (nor even see your post as downvoted), but presumably one reason might be this:

> He wont be able to sell a free sample of Tesla in EU. And someone stupid enough to buy it will have windows broken on daily basis as quisling. Not something unheard of, google for BMW - Break My Window.

Personally, I appreciate you "just stating the facts" so clearly. And because of your wording (eg "quisling"), it offers evidence that you personally support such window breakings. It is very useful for my model of the world to know how much the threat of violence there is. By analogy, in November 1938, I'd appreciate forewarning that the authorities would look on without intervening as a bunch of windows were broken.

(All the Google searches I did suggest that "Break My Window" was largely derived from thieves stealing radios. I assume that's not what you were referring to, but as far as I know, you may "just" support stealing from people.)

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#287

Post by mopsi »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #88
ramesh31 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we've been trained well in the US. Only our corporate overlords should have that kind of power.

Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief

> Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief

But there are plenty of examples of companies threatening to leave, or leaving a state due to unfavorable politics. Companies choose all the time where and with whom they do business.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#288

Post by kwhitefoot »

grotorea wrote: post #276
kristofferR wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not state-run though, it's a normal private company, just one where the governments own all the shares. They are still profit driven, like most state-owned companies in Scandinavia.

And if there is public protest about delivery prices increasing the government won't order the board to stop it and pretend to forget profitability?

Most likely not. The Scandinavian countries are capitalist democracies not dictatorships. Of course if it gets out of hand then the state will take action but anything beyond what any owner of a company could do would invite challenges in the courts.

What governments have done here is to deregulate the postal services to a fairly large degree so that there is genuine competition at least for parcels. I can send parcels using three different services here in Norway: Posten (the former royal mail, now a state owned company), Helthjem a company owned by a bi online trading site and media company (a bit like eBay), and the now infamous Swedish-Danish PostNord.

If one of them puts up the prices the others will just get more business.

The liberalisation of postal services is also required by an EU directive.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#289

Post by kwhitefoot »

eddtries wrote: post #188
kwhitefoot wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Swedish labour model which is built by Unions and not the government That's not exactly true. It's a partnership between the government, the unions, and the employers with the government usually taking the role of mediator. "The Swedish model & collective agreements – a brief introduction The Swedish labour market model in a nutshell In the Swedish labour market model, the social partners (trade unions and empl…

I still feel that text makes it clear the actual working conditions & rights etc are built up by the unions and not the governments? Fwiw I live in Sweden and am a member of its largest Union

It wouldn't be possible for unions to do it without the supporting framework provide by legislation.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#290

Post by fallingknife »

simion314 wrote: post #250
fallingknife wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like people who say what they mean and don't care what other people think even when they say things I disagree with. I hate people who read from PR scripts. So why would I not defend it?

I do not understand, you like Elon because he says dumb shit, so you try to defend the dumb shit? How do you do that? You try to make the dumb shit look smart or you try to excuse Elon because maybe he was drunk/tired/drugged when he said that dumb shit ? When he admits it was dumb and his fans argued for hours that it was smart how do they feel?

Who doesn't say dumb shit sometimes? Why would that bother me?
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