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Code is run more than read

olano.dev

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Re: Code is run more than read

#301

Post by idkdotcom »

Great article! I make a living as a software engineer but my formal training is in electrical engineering (the applied math of the discipline).

In EE, the mantra "if your design doesn't work is useless" was repeated ad nauseum. There was little to no credit to half working designs. Also in most EE products, specially semiconductors, the final product cannot be patched, so the emphasis on good design was immense.

Come to the world of software engineer where the low barrier of entry attracts a lot of people interested mostly in making easy money.

I have seen more horror code in my 10+ years as a software engineer than I can count.

Some developers in particular those of the kind "I will spend 3 days coding nonstop with redbull" produce such shitty software that there is a name for them. John Ousterhout calls them "tactical tornados". I have had the misfortune of working side by side with a couple of tactical tornados and my life was miserable left to fix the mess they left behind once they left the company.

Re: Code is run more than read

#302

Post by hot_gril »

smt88 wrote: post #8

For many of us, running our code 1 billion times will cost less than a few minutes of a developer's time. Hell, I could spend $200 for a month of server time on AWS and run a lot of my (web API) code 100 billion times. Optimizing for human readers is always better until you're working on something that proves itself to be too slow to be economical anymore.

This isn't what the article is about.

Re: Code is run more than read

#303

Post by smabie »

franga2000 wrote: post #246
bee_rider wrote: post #221

Businesses don’t really exist, they are an imaginary construct that we’ve come up with to help organize resources, ultimately in the interests of working together. Business isn’t more important than anything. There are multiple users, sometimes with competing interests; you can’t be everywhere and everything, so you have to prioritize. Going after more profitable users or users that align with some long-term strategy…

This is simply not true. Business exist as legal constructs and there are many things that are good for the business but bad for almost everyone else. Business also do not exist to serve users, whatever definition of user you might have. Business, unfortunately, exist to serve their owners. In most cases (I'm talking primarily about larger companies, not Employees won't leave, because the company will make sure they'…

Pretty sure the <5 ppl micro businesses just want money too

Re: Code is run more than read

#304

Post by pyrolistical »

dkarl wrote: post #280
t43562 wrote: post #147

Some users are not using a system because they like it but because their company bought it. In those situations biz > user by definition and the developers end up having to cater to the needs of the middle managment of their customers rather than the needs of the actual users. The price of not doing this is failing to win the contract. Users then get locked in to whatever crap you have time to provide for them while…

I worked at a company in a market with similar purchasing dynamics, but we focused exclusively on the users. We committed to a "product-led growth strategy," which meant no salespeople. Product focused entirely on the user experience. The problem was, we weren't selling to users. We were selling to people in the users' organizations who purchased software. These people did not have the same job as the users, and they…

And this is why we need to get rid of middle management. Purchasing software for others to use reeks of inefficiency

Re: Code is run more than read

#305

Post by harimau777 »

4death4 wrote: post #295
JohnFen wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most software engineers are lazy and lack a true sense of craft, so they usually skip building a great UX when it’s not a requirement. From my observations, it's usually not that devs are lazy or lack a sense of craft, it's that their employers are not willing to spend money building something that isn't actually a requirement.

That doesn’t explain why the functionality that is there is usually buggy and lackluster.

Because being bug free and lustrous isn't something that people are willing to pay for.

Re: Code is run more than read

#306

Post by omeid2 »

ska wrote: post #284
omeid2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think how any number on the z axis of complex plain isn't equal to the a number of same magnitude, on x and y axis. Now if you really think about, a number of a given magnitude on x axis also isn't exactly "equal" to a name of same magnitude on y axis or vice versa. Other wise, -5 and 5 should be equal, because they're the same magnitude from 0.

This is just imposing an chosen (and in this case, pretty natural) order on a set without total order. But as you note, you have to give something up. In this case the order identifies each number on a circle in the complex plane with a single value, their magnitude. I've never really seen this notation used, but it could have some use in partially-ordered sets.

It is formalisms all the way down.

Re: Code is run more than read

#307

Post by Too »

Cheap, fast, quality. Pick 2.

Which one to pick isn’t as linear as the article portrays and it changes over time. You can’t religiously plant yourself in one corner of the triangle forever.

Low quality will loose users and eventually also profit. Rushed development inevitably degrades quality over time, even if initially a high AWS bill hides this fact. No income and eventually you run out of cash to do any of the other 2.

Re: Code is run more than read

#308

Post by arendtio »

smt88 wrote: post #8

For many of us, running our code 1 billion times will cost less than a few minutes of a developer's time. Hell, I could spend $200 for a month of server time on AWS and run a lot of my (web API) code 100 billion times. Optimizing for human readers is always better until you're working on something that proves itself to be too slow to be economical anymore.

I think the headline is misleading in that regard. I think that having easy-to-run software is part of having a well-designed one. Just last week I heard about a software upgrade that would require a downtime of 5 days. The software has about 100 users and is mostly a flexible web application to collect basic information (nothing fancy). Imagine the cost this creates for the business compared to an upgrade that takes a few hours.

So running the software includes more than just the server costs.

Re: Code is run more than read

#309

Post by mrjin »

t43562 wrote: post #147

Some users are not using a system because they like it but because their company bought it. In those situations biz > user by definition and the developers end up having to cater to the needs of the middle managment of their customers rather than the needs of the actual users. The price of not doing this is failing to win the contract. Users then get locked in to whatever crap you have time to provide for them while…

Seems that has always been the case. A good example would be SAP.

Re: Code is run more than read

#310

Post by livesinhel »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #116
smt88 wrote: post #8

For many of us, running our code 1 billion times will cost less than a few minutes of a developer's time. Hell, I could spend $200 for a month of server time on AWS and run a lot of my (web API) code 100 billion times. Optimizing for human readers is always better until you're working on something that proves itself to be too slow to be economical anymore.

The problem with "costs less than developer's time" math is that, usually, it's not you who's paying . Your users are, often in nonobvious ways, such as through higher electricity bills, reduced lifespan[0], lost opportunities, increased frustration, and more frequent hardware upgrades. (And most of your users don't have developer's salary, or developer's quality of life, so it hurts them that many times more.) -- [0…

FYI: QALY = quality-adjusted life year[0]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year

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