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Code is run more than read

olano.dev

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Re: Code is run more than read

#281

Post by sumtechguy »

4death4 wrote: post #236
t43562 wrote: post #147

Some users are not using a system because they like it but because their company bought it. In those situations biz > user by definition and the developers end up having to cater to the needs of the middle managment of their customers rather than the needs of the actual users. The price of not doing this is failing to win the contract. Users then get locked in to whatever crap you have time to provide for them while…

I wouldn’t say you have to cater to middle management instead of the end user. You just can if you want to. Of course you need to consider what middle management needs, since they’re paying you, but there is usually room for craftsmanship to bring a truly great UX to the end user. Most software engineers are lazy and lack a true sense of craft, so they usually skip building a great UX when it’s not a requirement.

> so they usually skip building a great UX when it’s not a requirement

or worse think they are good at it. Then guard that GUI like it is their first born.

Re: Code is run more than read

#282

Post by VHRanger »

red_trumpet wrote: post #123
rob74 wrote: post #33

TIL of ≹, which "articulates a relationship where neither of the two compared entities is greater or lesser than the other, yet they aren't necessarily equal either. This nuanced distinction is essential in areas where there are different ways to compare entities that aren't strictly numerical." ( https://www.mathematics-monster.com/symbols/Neither-Greater-... )

The example z_1 ≹ z_2 for complex numbers z_1, z_2 is weird. Imo it would be clearer to state |z_1| = |z_2|, that is both complex numbers have the same absolute value. > To conclude, the ≹ symbol plays a crucial role in providing a middle ground between the traditional relational operators. As a PhD student in math, I have never seen it before. I do not believe that it plays any crucial role.

Might play a crucial role in some arcane subfield of set theory or something of the sort

Re: Code is run more than read

#283

Post by kllrnohj »

mch82 wrote: post #121
smt88 wrote: post #8

For many of us, running our code 1 billion times will cost less than a few minutes of a developer's time. Hell, I could spend $200 for a month of server time on AWS and run a lot of my (web API) code 100 billion times. Optimizing for human readers is always better until you're working on something that proves itself to be too slow to be economical anymore.

It seems like the author agrees with you and picked a confusing title for the article. The article ends with a set of equations: user > ops > dev biz > ops > dev biz ≹ user The conclusion seems to be that code exists in service to the end-user and the business. The last equation (≹) is a neat way of describing that both end-user and the business are equally important to the existence of the code, even though their ne…

> picked a confusing title for the article

Or they picked a title that would let you rapidly spot who didn't even skim the article.

Re: Code is run more than read

#284

Post by ska »

omeid2 wrote: post #59
namanyayg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, TIL. In your link however it states "Example 1: Numerical Context Let's consider two real numbers, a and b. If a is neither greater than nor less than b, but they aren't explicitly equal, the relationship is ≹" How can that be possible?

Think how any number on the z axis of complex plain isn't equal to the a number of same magnitude, on x and y axis. Now if you really think about, a number of a given magnitude on x axis also isn't exactly "equal" to a name of same magnitude on y axis or vice versa. Other wise, -5 and 5 should be equal, because they're the same magnitude from 0.

This is just imposing an chosen (and in this case, pretty natural) order on a set without total order. But as you note, you have to give something up. In this case the order identifies each number on a circle in the complex plane with a single value, their magnitude.

I've never really seen this notation used, but it could have some use in partially-ordered sets.

Re: Code is run more than read

#285

Post by redkoala »

4death4 wrote: post #247
bearjaws wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In enterprise software, you cater exclusively to management, they will turn a blind eye to 99% of issues as long as the team is able to get the work done. Take one look at EMRs and realize that its sold / marketed to .01% of the hospital, despite 80% of the health system using it.

> In enterprise software, you cater exclusively to management, they will turn a blind eye to 99% of issues as long as the team is able to get the work done. Again, you can exclusively cater to management, but you don’t have to. Look at Datadog. It’s a great product, but still ultimately purchased by management.

Some organizations listen to their engineers/users too in the buy decision. Effective products do both - cater to management checklists, and cater to end user experiences.

Re: Code is run more than read

#286

Post by pindab0ter »

kllrnohj wrote: post #283
mch82 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the author agrees with you and picked a confusing title for the article. The article ends with a set of equations: user > ops > dev biz > ops > dev biz ≹ user The conclusion seems to be that code exists in service to the end-user and the business. The last equation (≹) is a neat way of describing that both end-user and the business are equally important to the existence of the code, even though their ne…

> picked a confusing title for the article Or they picked a title that would let you rapidly spot who didn't even skim the article.

Of all the functions a title could have, I feel this is not one of them. That would result in intentionally misleading titles.

Re: Code is run more than read

#287

Post by gnuvince »

BoppreH wrote: post #168
gnuvince wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been calling the thinking of the parent "trickle-down devonomics": that by making the code better for the user, the benefits will trickle down to the users. Obviously, as the name suggests, that never happens. Devs get the quality of life and users end up paying for our disregard.

Loved the analogy. Also tracks with the fact that devs hold all the power in the user x dev relationship. > that by making the code better for the user, Did you mean the dev ?

Sorry, yes I did.

Re: Code is run more than read

#288

Post by jjav »

Gabrys1 wrote: post #254
t43562 wrote: post #147

Some users are not using a system because they like it but because their company bought it. In those situations biz > user by definition and the developers end up having to cater to the needs of the middle managment of their customers rather than the needs of the actual users. The price of not doing this is failing to win the contract. Users then get locked in to whatever crap you have time to provide for them while…

I used to work at a company that sold SaaS to big corporations. We needed to win contracts, so we needed to tick their checkboxes, but we also cared for the user experience (good UX was almost never a strict requirement from our customer). Our competitors' software was very painful to use, so we wanted to differentiate in this regard. This made our own lives easier as the training was easier, the users we interacted…

> This made our own lives easier as the training was easier

Unfortunately that works until some brilliant mba shows up with a plan to sell 100x more consulting and more training by making the product intentionally much more difficult to use.

Re: Code is run more than read

#289

Post by mattxxx »

I generally agree with the thesis here that "users and business are under-represented by people that are building and maintaining software", but the greater-than comparison over simplifies it, right?

It's something like "Net revenue" and "net user happiness" trump "code prettiness". Additionally, in the "maintainer > user" scenario, is it all maintainers? Is it one particular maintainer that has strong opinions (maybe which don't reflect what the business cares about)?

I'd suggest to replace the inequality mentality with an optimization problem, like: Find a version of the code that maximizes user happiness and minimizes maintenance cost.

If there are two solutions that give roughly the same values for the above, then accept either.

Re: Code is run more than read

#290

Post by steamer25 »

charles_f wrote: post #238
bee_rider wrote: post #221

Businesses don’t really exist, they are an imaginary construct that we’ve come up with to help organize resources, ultimately in the interests of working together. Business isn’t more important than anything. There are multiple users, sometimes with competing interests; you can’t be everywhere and everything, so you have to prioritize. Going after more profitable users or users that align with some long-term strategy…

I had the same initial reaction. Seeing something written that can be amounted to $ > person looks wrong. Yet, importance is subjective. If you're working on your own pet code for your own pleasure, business has no importance. If you want to transform that into your main revenue source, business is the most important thing, because no amount of user love will transform into practical revenue if your software serves n…

It's not really $ > person.

It's group of people A, who are conducting a [series of] transaction(s) with group of people B. It so happens that the wares being exchanged are currency vs. software but that's really besides the point.

Group of people A ≹ Group of people B

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