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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#91

Post by tuukkah »

HenryBemis wrote: post #51
Hamuko wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is more performative and/or grasping at straws, kinda like the recent X Corp v Media Matters suit.

On the "what is the legal basis for..." I think Tesla is beginning a process to have their hinds (and stock price) protected. A businessman will not just raise his hands up in the air in despair and say "ok I will not proceed". No, he/Tesla is suing as they have every right to and if local/top Swedish court says "oops can't do anything" then they can easily escalate to a higher court (EU) will solve it for them. Mean…

It's not the post office, it's its employees. Being a dick must be culture-dependent as I don't think many Swedes will consider someone being a dick for protecting their nation's social contract.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#93

Post by ceejayoz »

TheChaplain wrote: post #83
r0ckarong wrote: post #18

Looks like the counter to "fuck your rules" has always been: "ok so no more commerce with you".

Rules? Collective agreements are entirely voluntary, by law. What is happening is that the union is using connected companies to force Tesla to sign a collective agreement. Employees are not prohibited from joining the union themselves, they are protected by law and Tesla can not stop them nor fire them for it. From what I've read, the employees are quite happy as it is, and a collective agreement would actually make…

> What is happening is that the union is using connected companies to force Tesla to sign a collective agreement.

Which the rules permit.

Being stubborn and winding up in the middle of a multi-union sympathy strike is similarly "entirely voluntary, by law".

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#94

Post by tmikaeld »

mort96 wrote: post #90
tmikaeld wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I say it wasn't?

I thought you listed it as a negative effect. If that wasn't the point, I apologize, I misinterpreted.

Now that I read it again I can see that interpretation (Updated).

I mean it could be bad for Swedish investments, so kind of bad?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#95

Post by Pungsnigel »

piva00 wrote: post #75
Pungsnigel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of companies work without collective agreements in Sweden though. Under law it's completely free if you want to do so or not. You could as well say that the unions are threatening the Swedish model due to taking this to such extreme levels. Especially as it doesn't seem most employees at Tesla want the unions involved.

They do while conditions are ok, it seems like conditions are not ok for these workers hence they pushing for a CBA. And while lots of companies work without a CBA here in Sweden, 90% of employees are covered by CBAs, so the vast majority are covered by one and Tesla fighting this by bringing scabs (a huge, huge no-no in here) is quite stupid. If they thought a CBA would be bad for business then strikes are even wors…

Most employees don't seem to be in support of the unions at this point though? It's a bit hard to tell as there are no official numbers, but from what I've seen it seems like ~90% or so of employees at Tesla remain at work. And there is a high demand for their services, so they could easily go to other companies for work if conditions are bad.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#96

Post by soco »

Stranger43 wrote: post #77
Pungsnigel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of companies work without collective agreements in Sweden though. Under law it's completely free if you want to do so or not. You could as well say that the unions are threatening the Swedish model due to taking this to such extreme levels. Especially as it doesn't seem most employees at Tesla want the unions involved.

The way unions work in scandinavia is that they are decentralized but supportive of each other. IE as long as the workers don't form an local chapter everything is fine the problem if that when such a chapter forms and the company ignores it every other union chapter is allowed to refuse to deliver work in support of an company that choose to refuse/fight unionization. So for there to be an conflict there have to be…

I work for a US company and I can tell that US management doesn't give a rat's ass on local customs until it bites them. You can raise and escalate and whatnot, they will still push the locals to implement the illegal/unacceptable stuff if not immediately then boiling the frog - anything goes until some agency or legal suit says whoa stop.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#97

Post by kmlx »

piva00 wrote: post #33
kmlx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while this comment is true, not sure what it has to do with the article. from my understanding tesla is actually suing the state because there’s a law saying license plates can only be delivered via post. and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). but maybe i misunderstood something, so someone can correct me if i’m…

> and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model: labour laws are minimal, setting just a very basic framework which is then taken to employers + employees negotiations to set the other terms of employment for an industry, in that it's a pretty free labour market. The…

> It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model

the only thing i’m questioning is the idea that the postal company is allowed to not deliver mail. it just looks very wrong to me.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#98

Post by renlo »

orwin wrote: post #59
lynx23 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Musk, I'd just shut down the whole operation in Sweden. It is not like the country is particularily big.

If he does that, he will have to do the same with norway, and probably Denmark too. Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France.

> because it will have to respect warranties

How? If they leave how can a fine be levied against them? EU?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#99

Post by Hikikomori »

tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

You don't think Tesla owners would seek reimbursement if they cannot service their cars anymore? The government would likely get involved to avoid Tesla car e-waste, either to force car returns and repayment or to allow 3rd party mechanics to work on their cars.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#100

Post by Hikikomori »

Thorrez wrote: post #74
ceejayoz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The factory says they can't do this. > According to the Transport Agency, current regulations mean it is only able to distribute number plates using Postnord.

I think the purpose of this lawsuit is to get that regulation changed.

Then the factory workers might refuse to hand out plates to Tesla as they're also part of a union.
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