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TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

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Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#151

Post by nkurz »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #57
some-guy wrote: post #20

It’s not just young teens generally: my wife is involved in left-wing Jewish organizations in the United States and young Jews are increasingly more skeptical of Israel’s importance to their Jewish identity. I wouldn’t say it’s quite a majority at this point but it’s a sizable enough chunk that they’re starting to become noticed by mainstream media outlets.

The least isreal supporting senator in the USA is coincidentally the only ethnically Jewish one as well, Bernie Sanders. The Jewish left has always been isreal skeptic, including the Jewish left within isreal.

It is an interesting point about Sanders, but are you sure he is the "only ethnically Jewish" senator? This site seems to say there are about a half-dozen other Jewish senators currently serving: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-senators-in-the-.... Are you using a definition of "ethnically" that makes your statement true?

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#152

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

GuardianCaveman wrote: post #67
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #27

How could any empathic person not be pro-5.2 million refugees? Downvote me to death, I don't care, but have the courage to explain why you're downvoting.

If Canada surprise attacked your hometown and killed your entire family would you have empathy when the United States declared all civilians must clear out of Montreal before a retaliatory strike takes place? It’s amazing how the slaughter of innocents is justified because they were being oppressed. If the Japanese in internment camps massacred the nearby town would you have empathy for them then when they were punis…

> If Canada surprise attacked your hometown and killed your entire family would you have empathy when the United States declared all civilians must clear out of Montreal before a retaliatory strike takes place?

....of course I would have empathy then? How could I not? My family isn't the only family capable of suffering. If anything, my suffering would make me care more about the suffering of others. I would never want to inflict that pain on other families. It makes no sense.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#153

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

insanitybit wrote: post #35
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #27

How could any empathic person not be pro-5.2 million refugees? Downvote me to death, I don't care, but have the courage to explain why you're downvoting.

That's not an argument, it's an emotional appeal. Hence downvoting.

Are emotions not a valid reason for caring about things, or doing things?

Why care about genocide at all if you don't consider emotion? It's just sacks of meat getting destroyed, like cows, pigs, lambs. Why should we care if any living creature is killed, oppressed, suffers?

Emotion. It drives us to reason one way rather than another. Emotion drives us to make killing dogs illegal, while killing fish, birds, other mammals, etc is done by the millions every day.

There's no logic to religious debate as all religion is made up superstition. There's no logic to allowing one group of people to keep some land and not others other than the rationale that whoever has the bigger gun is allowed to keep the land. There's no logic to retaliation at all, because it's circular reasoning.

So, yeah, it's an appeal to emotion. Otherwise what the hell is the point of caring about any death? Logic will never stop the killing. Logic will never be able to come up with "a solution" that is acceptable to the human psyche. But emotion can.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#154

Post by wolverine876 »

prmph wrote: post #134
wolverine876 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Not your job to provide them, but Wikipedia, especially about a white-hot topic, is not reliable in my book. I will keep an eye out. Still, if you want to persuade people of extraordinary claims, you'll of course need very strong evidence.

There are references for the HDI figures. You really think Wikipedia is cooking HDI figures?

An editor could be, but regardless, Wikipedia has many risks, especially in this scenario.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#155

Post by insanitybit »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #153
insanitybit wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an argument, it's an emotional appeal. Hence downvoting.

Are emotions not a valid reason for caring about things, or doing things? Why care about genocide at all if you don't consider emotion? It's just sacks of meat getting destroyed, like cows, pigs, lambs. Why should we care if any living creature is killed, oppressed, suffers? Emotion. It drives us to reason one way rather than another. Emotion drives us to make killing dogs illegal, while killing fish, birds, other ma…

This isn't saying "emotions aren't valid" it's saying that this is an attempt at reducing the conversation to something emotional to distract from anything else. Your entire post is moot.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#156

Post by paulmd »

evantbyrne wrote: post #92
viraptor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while the world remains hands-off The world is not hands-off right now. Or specifically, there's a number of countries involved in effectively helping Israel's aggression.

The international community has been nurturing the dysfunctional status quo for some time in hopes of a two-state solution. With one hand providing weaponry to Israel–usually but not always defensive equipment like AA–and with the other billions in humanitarian aid to Gaza and the West Bank. Meanwhile other foreign actors have been funding the insurgency in Gaza to disrupt peace efforts. It's a very messy situation w…

One needn’t even go as far as “the international community”, Hamas was funded by Israel itself as a perceived counterweight to the secular PLO. Divide and conquer is what kept the Israeli settlers moving outwards, and that necessitated funding and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and later Hamas.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http:/online.wsj....

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c...

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#158

Post by flandish »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #58
firefoxd wrote: post #40

That's like saying young people being against the Vietnam war was a product of media bias. Maybe it was true, and it was a good thing.

Many here would have said it's a complicated both sides issue (such as framing it as terrorists vs colonizers) and that neither side can be supported, given their current stances evident in this thread. Do you condemn the Viet Cong? Did their choice to use violence justify America's violence against them?

America’s entry into Vietnam was based on manufactured consent and lies like the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Heck, Laos wasn’t ever involved as a “bad actor” yet ended up the most bombed country in the history of the world. You can thank Kissinger for that.

In short: America was the bad guy.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#159

Post by cykros »

op00to wrote: post #28
ketzo wrote: post #4

I mean, young people have been dramatically more pro-Palestine since long before social media. Grain of salt and all, but I don’t think it’s a wild claim on its face, especially once you account for the nature of network effects / filter bubbles.

Do you have any data to back up that assertion? As a teenager of the 90s, we were not all that globally conscious.

I think things changed a lot after 9/11. At all the anti-war rallies it was common to hear "From Iraq to Palestine, Occupation is a Crime." Also, in the 90s, being globally aware was a LOT harder than even 10 years later, even if you set out to do so. These days, kids may well have played online games with folks in Palestine, or at least neighboring countries.

The world has changed a fair bit in the last 30 years.

Re: TikTok says it's not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine

#160

Post by cykros »

klyrs wrote: post #50
op00to wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do teenagers care about this particular tragedy and not Syria or any of the horrors in Africa? Surely it can’t be the scale of killing since there are far worse civilian death tolls in conflicts around the world.

Syria is an old conflict and nothing has changed in many years. This particular tragedy has been stewing for a long time, and recently exploded. So, right now, the reaction is fairly well proportional to the rate of change.

It's also one where the US government and military has been itself in opposition to Assad's forces. What then would be accomplished by rallying over it?

People tend to get up in arms and out in the streets when their concerns aren't being addressed. They tend to be a lot quieter, even if they have major concerns, if they are. Sort of the concept behind "silent majority."

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