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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#461

Post by rckclmbr »

riversflow wrote: post #332
epistasis wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always hilarious to me when people driving $60k vehicles ask me how much the ebike cost and say "that's expensive". The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Some people have weird ideas about cars being "for regular people" while any money spent on a bicycle is a luxury.

I’ve driven a $3k car for almost 15 years. It has needed 3 sets of tires, 2 sets of front struts, a brake job, new power steering lines and a timing belt. I did all of that work, less the tires, myself. I spend about $1000 a year on insurance and registration. The utility I get out of the car, in absolute terms, is incomparable to my ~$1500 bicycle(that I purchased for utility and even commuted on for several years).…

I agree that an ebike isn't a replacement for a car in all circumstances. However, it is a replacement for a 2nd car. We have kids, groceries, vacations, beach trips, etc and have to have a car for. My wife usually has the car

I use the ebike every day to commute, and for lots of groceries or coffee runs. I've ridden that (or my road bike) ~40k miles over the last 5 years. For the "emergencies" that I do need a 2nd car, I uber. I think I've done it 5 times in the last 5 years.

In terms of dollars saved, at this point an ebike almost costs me nothing. I just use miles traveled * .55 for cost savings over a car.

In terms of co2 saved, I don't know but I consider it a win.

In terms of life enjoyment, I'd MUCH rather be on my ebike than stuck in a box.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#462

Post by NegativeLatency »

nravic wrote: post #60
davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

what kind of pannier bags do you use to haul groceries? All the ones I've used have been too small for my purposes.

Used to do groceries with a regular bike and two ortlieb panniers (you can leave the top open to use their full capacity)

For extra space a front "Porteur style" rack is nice (you can carry a pizza or takeout), or a rear rack with a set of lower mounting rails allows carrying stuff ontop of your rack without interfering as much with the panniers.

nice front racks: https://www.passandstowracks.com

nice front and back racks: https://www.tubus.com/en/products/

some people also really like the topeak rail system, which has for example a little wheely cart you can pull around the store with you, the "Topeak TrolleyTote"

Over the summer I bought a used (not electric) bakfiets on craigslist (and only recently did a mid-drive electric conversion) it's been really great for doing more with a bike because it doesn't take as much "how am I going to carry this home" planning. I've picked up groceries, dog food, filing cabinets, my wife, my dog, friends, lumber, tools, etc. It's quite an amazing bike format.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#463

Post by KennyBlanken »

tfrutuoso wrote: post #172
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

That's very elitist. Not everyone lives in large cities with whole mass transit systems or works the usual 9-5. Even in large urban areas it's tricky to get around past a certain time. I remember working unexpected shifts and later staring at closed metro stations, having to walk in the rain to get home. No thanks. Also, some people like cars. Deal with it, i'm not ditching for an e-bike or whatever. An electric moto…

Over 80% of the US population lives in an densely populated area and RE-establishing public transit is not even remotely an insurmountable challenge logistically.

The only thing standing in the way of mass transit are congressional representatives from rural areas representing counties that have less population than one square mile of Los Angeles.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#464

Post by ackfoobar »

bluGill wrote: post #441
ackfoobar wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That isn't physically possible, but it is what I want in the ideal world. I think the same can be said (to a lesser degree maybe) about cars, which are very space inefficient. With enough sprawl and a certain density, e.g. in Toronto, it's just gonna be traffic for every one.

Not exactly. Sprawl means you can't reasonably reach the entire city, but low density sprawl and cars mean you can reach enough of a city to consider it all the advantages of a city. Toronto loses out because they have a dense city center, downtowns have to be torn down for the sprawl model to work - people who get a new job may have to move elsewhere in the city since the new job isn't close to the old (unlike when…

I did not make my point clear, and that's my bad.

Torotno exists, so of course car dependency is somewhat feasible in real life. The impossible part is travelling in the sprawl with relatively short time, as limited by the road's speed limit. The real limiting factor most of the time is traffic, because of the space inefficiency of cars.

I made this point because I seem to recall a city simulation game despawn cars (literally physically impossible) to make car dependent designs "work".

---

> you can reach enough of a city to consider it all the advantages of a city

With enough people driving downtown you lose most of the advantages, and it makes the lives of those who didn't choose this lifestyle worse.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#465

Post by ak217 »

As e-bikes and electric cars multiply, managing the sustainable repair and total lifecycle of their batteries is going to become a lot more important.

Currently we treat e-bike batteries as disposable. When a battery dies, you are invited to throw it away in a designated way, and maybe if you're lucky it will be sent to a recycler that takes apart the casing, throws it away, melts down the cells and rebuilds them. If you're lucky, the e-bike or scooter has a standardized interface that takes a new battery.

This is wildly wasteful and unsustainable. Lithium ion batteries have a limited lifespan and are sensitive to being left discharged for a long time. When they break, it's usually a single cell out of a hundred that takes out the whole pack. It is entirely possible and safe to replace a pod that comprises 10% of the pack and prolong the life of the battery for several years, if the other pods check out.

This process should not be done by consumers. It requires local repair shops to be able to get training and certification in these repair procedures. We need "right to repair" laws for standardized swappable battery connectors and modular battery internals - this will make a huge difference in our future transportation carbon and resource footprint (of course, cars and overweight SUVs should be charged proportionately to their footprint too).

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#466

Post by willio58 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #446
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

And for those handi-capable folks, what do we do?

For anyone with any type of handicap, we should definitely still build our world with them in mind. Building our world more around walking, micro-mobility, and public transit would surely help those who might be in wheelchairs, scooters, etc.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#468

Post by goalonetwo »

School-Cotton wrote: post #219
nicoburns wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn. If it's really 50/50 then that is bad!

It's not, OP was wildly exaggerating.

depends what does 50/50 refers to?

If it is the probability of having it stolen after one year I would say it is pretty accurate in big metros like San Francisco or Denver.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#469

Post by bborud »

Moldoteck wrote: post #278
vikramkr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, 10 kilometers is a LOT. I would not walk 6.2 miles for groceries. Or to work. Or to most things frankly

Lol neither dutch bike that long. Bikes are good for 5-7kms, >10 is already a stretch and ppl use bike+train combo or just straight up bus/tram

From where I live to where I work is 8km. That takes somewhere between 19 and 23 minutes. 23 minutes on the days when there was more than 3-4cm how snow on the road. I occasionally take the scenic route to work. About 14km and a little more than half an hour.

I do this every day. Regardless of weather. It saves me a lot of time for the simple reason that this both represents a mild workout and getting myself to work.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#470

Post by smugma »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #165
nicoburns wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to get bike insurance. I pay £7/month to insure mine, which is lot cheaper than car insurance!

Bike will get stolen anyway which is really annoying no matter the insurance. Not saying bike isn’t preferred to car, it’s just something I always consider. I’ve got a bike AND a car, I still take the car on certain trips where the bike would make more sense logistically because it feels like 50/50 it’ll get stolen.

I live in SF and have two bikes (a road bike and a bike with a kid seat on the back), an eBike, and a car. I do lots of trips on my bike. When I am in a rush or need to go a bit farther or hillier than I feel comfortable on my bike, I often end up checking out an eBike. The fact that it's one-way is convenient but I also value that I don't have to worry about my bike getting stolen. The convenience and risk reduction is worth the few bucks to rent.

I almost never use my eBike. I prefer getting the exercise and the theft factor dissuades me from using it as a mode of transportation.

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