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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#221

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #127

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

no kidding. I read over 120 newspaper articles: why journalism is broken... :)

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#222

Post by Guvante »

mmaurizi wrote: post #218
underdeserver wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

Tesla removes a lot of potential points of failure - no credit card machine or touchscreen to break and the cord is too short to drive over it with your car.

Not to mention only supporting your own vehicles which all auto update.

Handshake false negatives basically disappear if you control everything.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#223

Post by Guvante »

fragmede wrote: post #179
RamblingCTO wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this technology is probably simpler and way more mature than EV.

way more mature, sure, but simpler? it has to vend a liquid and measure its amount and then charge you at the pump a specific amount. whereas the EV chargers are a cable and an Internet connection.

Are we talking about Level 2 or fast chargers?

Level 2 is similar in complexity to gas stations (beyond the handshake process being more finiky than trusting the user installed it correctly).

High speed chargers are incredibly more complex than gasoline. You need to delivery a specific voltage and amperage to the car and both of those numbers change continuously as the battery charges.

Note the article is about high speed not level 2.

While physically it might not be much more complicated (note pulling off that kind of charging at almost a kW is no small feat) certainly the software is more complicated.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#224

Post by DangitBobby »

killingtime74 wrote: post #136
xrd wrote: post #23

A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of…

Well if you had a Tesla your story would have stopped at the start. Many people buy a Tesla for this specific reason. Other manufacturers are converting to the Tesla standard for this reason. If you don't buy a Tesla and have troubles afterwards..well you had a choice at the start.

Or maybe you didn't, depending on how much money you can drop on a car.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#225

Post by albrewer »

closeparen wrote: post #133
hakfoo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I think the card industry itself is having to rethink a lot of stuff for EVs. Petrol pumps with card readers are their own little universe of rules and compliance standards within the credit card industry (the formal term is 'Automated Fuel Dispenser'). It's far enough afield that you're looking at specialized software and vendors, in part because a lot of them support fleet cards, which range from "95% normal…

ZipCar has an elaborate fleet card setup. I remember having to type in the current odometer value, and some other identifiers, on the gas pump keypad. Never seen something like that before.

I worked as a delivery driver for an auto parts store in ~2010. We had the same thing, but the card was tied to the vehicle (the card was literally attached to the vehicle's key) so we didn't have to type in the vehicle ID.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#226

Post by steelframe »

david422 wrote: post #90
Symbiote wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's in your garage, can't you just plug it in to a normal outlet?

Only if I had a working charger, yes. The piece between the wall outlet and the car was what was broken.

I've got 4 largely-independent L2 chargers so I don't ever have to worry about a broken charger leaving me up a creek without a paddle. One Clipper Creek plugged into a NEMA 14-50 outlet that's lasted 12 years so far, another Clipper Creek hardwired on another circuit. If the charger with the plug fails I've got my mobile L2 charger and my old Tesla mobile charger with a J1772 adapter.

For road trips over 150 miles I just use my PHEV. I don't recall the last time I needed to use a public rapid charging station.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#227

Post by aidenn0 »

closeparen wrote: post #139
aidenn0 wrote: post #99

The payment thing just boggles my mind. I've been paying at card readers at a gas pump for 20 years now and exactly once did it not work. It's the one thing that has been completely solved in industry, and it doesn't work with EVs.

I try tap-to-pay at every gas pump that has the hardware, but only at 1 in 5 or so does it actually work.

Oh, that's often true for me too for tap-to-pay, even at a typical indoor POS. Inserting the card always works though.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#228

Post by p1mrx »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #177
p1mrx wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NACS will use the same signalling protocol as CCS, which means existing vehicles will be able to charge from NACS using a passive adapter. CHAdeMO may be the new Betamax, but CCS is more like VHS-C.

How will payment work if the adapter is passive?

Probably app, card, or plug and charge, depending on what's supported.

Payment methods are orthogonal to the connector type.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#229

Post by sheepshear »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #127

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

The incentive reason is that rushing to market is more lucrative than waiting for a reliable product. The technical reason is that these early prospecters simply lack the capability to do sufficient reliability engineering. It would be a boring article.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#230

Post by viraptor »

atlantic wrote: post #216
jonkho wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is government paying subsidies to build charging stations? Must imply they are not a profitable endeavor to begin with. Otherwise entrepreneurs would be all crawling over for the opportunity. If there is no money in it, it will be left to rot.

Green energies in general are heavily subsidized, whereas conventional fossil fuels are heavily taxed. Without these measures, there would be no transition to alternative power sources, because economically they are nonsensical.

> whereas conventional fossil fuels are heavily taxed

Hahaha... I wish.

https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel...

> fossil-fuel subsidies rose by $2 trillion over the past two years as explicit subsidies (undercharging for supply costs) more than doubled to $1.3 trillion

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