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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#211

Post by VyseofArcadia »

al_borland wrote: post #160
KingOfCoders wrote: post #127

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

Gas stations have attendants. When payment doesn’t work, a person can go tell someone and still pay. When a pump has an issue it can be switch off when it first happens. If it’s an easy fix, it can be done right there. If it’s not an easy fix they can schedule a repair. These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. It should have been obvious this wouldn’t work,…

Set it and forget it doesn't work, but we also don't need need full timrtime attendants. Regular (weekly? Monthly?) inspections would be fine.

Infrastructure always needs maintenance. You can't get away with it. If you build it, you should regularly inspect and maintain it.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#212

Post by trimethylpurine »

viraptor wrote: post #175
trimethylpurine wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because gas customers are greater in number, regular, more frequent, and higher paying. Just guessing.

Regardless, that's most likely leased spaces. If they don't make money, they lose money. And they seem to be off for a significant amount of time given that everyone seems to have a first hand story about it.

That's true, but I doubt people charging their car represent the bulk of their income. The government pays companies to build new stations. Fixing old ones means your techs are tied up, and you're able to bid on fewer projects, which means less revenue. Again, I'm guessing, but it seems like a decent explanation.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#213

Post by jonkho »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #212
viraptor wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, that's most likely leased spaces. If they don't make money, they lose money. And they seem to be off for a significant amount of time given that everyone seems to have a first hand story about it.

That's true, but I doubt people charging their car represent the bulk of their income. The government pays companies to build new stations. Fixing old ones means your techs are tied up, and you're able to bid on fewer projects, which means less revenue. Again, I'm guessing, but it seems like a decent explanation.

Why is government paying subsidies to build charging stations? Must imply they are not a profitable endeavor to begin with. Otherwise entrepreneurs would be all crawling over for the opportunity. If there is no money in it, it will be left to rot.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#214

Post by underdeserver »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #205
underdeserver wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

Tesla chargers have instantaneous telemetry that tell drivers exactly how many charging stalls are functional. Presumably this information is available to Tesla employees, who seem to take action immediately when a charging station reports trouble. Excluding the entire card payments industry from the process (thus excluding a garbage-fire of non-functional third party technology) takes care of the rest.

According to TFA, the same kind of telemetry is available for the other charging station operators too.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#215

Post by underdeserver »

rcxdude wrote: post #189
underdeserver wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

It could also be faster maintenance response. If Tesla actually fixes their chargers quickly then you would tend not to see it even if the base reliability is lower.

This is easily measurable. Measure handshake success rate, station usage, station availability. Keep them high. It's not hard, just expensive.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#216

Post by atlantic »

jonkho wrote: post #213
trimethylpurine wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but I doubt people charging their car represent the bulk of their income. The government pays companies to build new stations. Fixing old ones means your techs are tied up, and you're able to bid on fewer projects, which means less revenue. Again, I'm guessing, but it seems like a decent explanation.

Why is government paying subsidies to build charging stations? Must imply they are not a profitable endeavor to begin with. Otherwise entrepreneurs would be all crawling over for the opportunity. If there is no money in it, it will be left to rot.

Green energies in general are heavily subsidized, whereas conventional fossil fuels are heavily taxed. Without these measures, there would be no transition to alternative power sources, because economically they are nonsensical.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#218

Post by mmaurizi »

underdeserver wrote: post #183
al_borland wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations have attendants. When payment doesn’t work, a person can go tell someone and still pay. When a pump has an issue it can be switch off when it first happens. If it’s an easy fix, it can be done right there. If it’s not an easy fix they can schedule a repair. These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. It should have been obvious this wouldn’t work,…

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

Tesla removes a lot of potential points of failure - no credit card machine or touchscreen to break and the cord is too short to drive over it with your car.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#219

Post by mcmcdtx »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #97
xrd wrote: post #23

A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of…

> But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. Or like, a 120v plug anywhere at someone who has electricity? That's a lot more ubiquitous than a gas station.

My Kona Electric takes 72 hours to charge to full on a 120v plug

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#220

Post by Tagbert »

underdeserver wrote: post #183
al_borland wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations have attendants. When payment doesn’t work, a person can go tell someone and still pay. When a pump has an issue it can be switch off when it first happens. If it’s an easy fix, it can be done right there. If it’s not an easy fix they can schedule a repair. These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. It should have been obvious this wouldn’t work,…

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

Tesla does have a robust and responsive repair process in place. They monitor the status of their chargers and quickly send out a repair team. This is opposed to other operators who often wait for customer complaints and even then may not respond for weeks. It’s not that Tesla has magic, unbreakable equipment.
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