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People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

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Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#241

Post by vasco »

makeitdouble wrote: post #176
wkat4242 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. I remember one time I got off the plane in Italy and I was walking with my girlfriend to customs. At one point we branched off from all the other passengers and she was like "hey we're going the wrong way, everyone is heading there". And I said nope this is the EU passengers exit, look at the sign. She couldn't believe it was right because the plane was full of others from our EU country. All th…

> a security guard had to let them into the right queue. So, just looking at the final result they ended up in the right place ? Assuming the security guard made that adjustment because they were so many of them, the strategy seems to be paying off in that specific case.

Someone like the person you replied to would consider a big failure and inefficient to be told by security where to go when there are signs. I'd be thinking about it for a while after too and it'd never happen again in an airport because I'd be even more aware next time to prevent it.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#242

Post by InSteady »

epivosism wrote: post #202

bystander effect is not valid in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp... even wikipedia has updated saying Counter example In 2019, a large international cultural anthropology study analyzed 219 street disputes and confrontations that were recorded by security cameras in three cities in different countries—Lancaster, Amsterdam, and Cape Town. Contrary to bystander theory, the s…

If I'm reading the statistics in the study correctly [0], most of these 80 incidents (70%) were pulled from CCTV footage at a "night time drinking setting." Groups of 18 people on average standing around bars, presumably outside. In 20% of cases someone de-escalated, 5% of the time a bystander joined in to escalate the violent encounter, and 4% it was a mix of escalation/de-escalation. Presumably the rest of the time no one intervened.

This is not an ideal setting to analyze the bystander effect. People are drunk. People know each other. People may have just met but started bonding over alcohol (and cigarettes, if we are outside the bar). Seems more like a study of the behavior of drunk people than anything else.

Fair warning, I'm not great at interpreting statistics nor reading sociological studies, I prefer to read about medicine. I'm open to being corrected.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6790599/

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#243

Post by vasco »

lmm wrote: post #237
permo-w wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? another example: queueing to board the plane. other than to fit in, why on earth would I stand there and compete to spend more time in a sweaty uncomfortable seat packed with 400 other people? plus, if you get on…

> this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? There's an increase in potential negative consequences. More people with guns, more chance for "security" to pick on someone they don't like. If you go off on your own and you're right, you don't gain much - if…

Some people live in a scary world. I would think it's quite stupid to be worried about this when the worst that could happen is missing a flight, which would not happen anyway if you pay attention to your surroundings.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#244

Post by vlovich123 »

RoyalHenOil wrote: post #240
vlovich123 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a petty aggressive and condescending response. I have a pretty big dog (GS mix) and she’d likely never be fast enough to catch a squirrel or bird unless she’s lucky (I also trained that response out of her very early on) and she was definitely faster than Dobermans at the park in her prime. Also, even if she did, it’s not like she’s that foreign a concept - dogs are everywhere and squirrels and birds already d…

As a dog lover and lifelong dog owner, keep your fucking dog leashed and away from mine. I will 100% defend my dogs with lethal force if I have to, and I will pursue any legal action I can against you. Just because you think your dog is OK doesn't mean that other dogs are OK with your dog; they don't know your dog, and I don't know your dog. I hug my friends, but if a strangers runs up and hugs me, I will interpret t…

Sure. When there’s other dogs around I keep her leashed. When I’m walking her by myself at night when there’s no one around I’m not going to leash her.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#245

Post by lmm »

vasco wrote: post #243
lmm wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? There's an increase in potential negative consequences. More people with guns, more chance for "security" to pick on someone they don't like. If you go off on your own and you're right, you don't gain much - if…

Some people live in a scary world. I would think it's quite stupid to be worried about this when the worst that could happen is missing a flight, which would not happen anyway if you pay attention to your surroundings.

That's not the worst that can happen, not by a long way. You have very few rights in an airport, in practice if not in theory.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#246

Post by Obscurity4340 »

josephcsible wrote: post #230
BirdieNZ wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD and autism are comorbid in one direction (people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism).

> people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism I'm pretty sure that's not mathematically possible. If W people have both, X people have only autism, Y people have only ADHD, and Z people have neither, can you provide values for W, X, Y, and Z that would make that claim true?

We don't need mathematical or conjectural proofs here, it makes intuitive sense but if you find a soecific rebuttal to it we'll be glad to reference that as well

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#247

Post by Frivolous9421 »

fsckboy wrote: post #218
xwdv wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason becomes apparent when you take a carry on bag and find yourself desperately searching for somewhere to put it in an overhead bin, but there is none. You boarded too late and everyone ahead of you stole your allotted space. NOW you have to check in your carry on. And waste time waiting for your bag at the baggage claim. If it even makes it. Your bag has much higher chance of being lost if checked in late.

> The reason becomes apparent when you take a carry on bag your unreason will become apparent when you check that bag and stroll completely unencumbered through the vast distances twixt curb and plane (x2 departure and arrival) baggage claim really doesn't take that long, and you can come up with something zen to do for 5 or 10 minutes, make a phone call or two, talk to family or friends. Life is better when you stop…

I agreed until I lost thousands of dollars of shit in a checked bag TWICE in one lifetime

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#248

Post by xwolfi »

InSteady wrote: post #242
epivosism wrote: post #202

bystander effect is not valid in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp... even wikipedia has updated saying Counter example In 2019, a large international cultural anthropology study analyzed 219 street disputes and confrontations that were recorded by security cameras in three cities in different countries—Lancaster, Amsterdam, and Cape Town. Contrary to bystander theory, the s…

If I'm reading the statistics in the study correctly [0], most of these 80 incidents (70%) were pulled from CCTV footage at a "night time drinking setting." Groups of 18 people on average standing around bars, presumably outside. In 20% of cases someone de-escalated, 5% of the time a bystander joined in to escalate the violent encounter, and 4% it was a mix of escalation/de-escalation. Presumably the rest of the time…

Yeah but we re talking about the real world. If we re honest, when do most conflicts arise with bystanders ready? When people are drunk at night... (or similarly mentally impaired maybe? why do people have open conflicts in the streets in the first place should be part of the theory).

So you might say that if the theory didnt take alcohol, nights and all your factors into account, then it was as useful as considering investors as rational in an econ theory and predicted nothing worth predicting.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#249

Post by d0mine »

josephcsible wrote: post #230
BirdieNZ wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD and autism are comorbid in one direction (people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism).

> people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism I'm pretty sure that's not mathematically possible. If W people have both, X people have only autism, Y people have only ADHD, and Z people have neither, can you provide values for W, X, Y, and Z that would make that claim true?

p(h)p(a|h)=p(h|a)p(a) therefore if p(a)=p(a|h) then p(h)=p(h|a) too.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#250

Post by Twisol »

josephcsible wrote: post #230
BirdieNZ wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD and autism are comorbid in one direction (people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism).

> people with autism are more likely than the general population to have ADHD, but people with ADHD are not more likely than the general population to have autism I'm pretty sure that's not mathematically possible. If W people have both, X people have only autism, Y people have only ADHD, and Z people have neither, can you provide values for W, X, Y, and Z that would make that claim true?

Alright, you've nerd-sniped me.

Our assumption is that the ratio of people with autism and ADHD to people with just autism is greater than the ratio of people with ADHD to people in general. Using your variables, that is: W / (W + X) > (W + Y) / (W + X + Y + Z). This simplifies out to the constraint that ZW > XY.

We want to show that the ratio of people with autism and ADHD to people with just ADHD is no greater than the ratio of people with just autism to people in general. This is: W / (W + Y) We can recognize that this is almost the same as our assumption, just exchanging the roles of X and Y. (I guess that's obvious from the problem statement.) That means our goal is to show that ZW So, indeed, this is mathematically impossible!

(EDIT: It's surprisingly hard to write these formulae down in English without getting confused.)

I think something that would be possible is that having ADHD if you have autism is more likely than having autism if you have ADHD. For instance, "being older than 20 if you're older than 30 is more likely than being older than 30 if you're older than 20" is just obviously true, because one entails the other.

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