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People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

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Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#201
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? another example: queueing to board the plane. other than to fit in, why on earth would I stand there and compete to spend more time in a sweaty uncomfortable seat packed with 400 other people? plus, if you get on…

The reason becomes apparent when you take a carry on bag and find yourself desperately searching for somewhere to put it in an overhead bin, but there is none. You boarded too late and everyone ahead of you stole your allotted space. NOW you have to check in your carry on. And waste time waiting for your bag at the baggage claim. If it even makes it. Your bag has much higher chance of being lost if checked in late.

Pretty funny use of the word "stole" in this context. The space being above a particular doesn't make it that seat's space any more than the public parking space on the street in front of your house makes it yours. And I've been on probably 8 or 10 flights this year and every time they said carry-ons checked at the gate are returned planeside upon arrival; not once have they been sent to baggage claim.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#202
bystander effect is not valid in the first place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp...

even wikipedia has updated saying

  Counter example

  In 2019, a large international cultural anthropology study analyzed 219 street disputes and confrontations that were recorded by security cameras in three cities in different countries—Lancaster, Amsterdam, and Cape Town. Contrary to bystander theory, the study found that bystanders intervened in almost every case, and the chance of intervention went up with the number of bystanders; "a highly radical discovery and a completely different outcome than theory predicts."[68]

    This study is the first large-scale test of the bystander effect in real-life. Up until now, this effect was mainly studied in the lab by asking study subjects how they would respond in a particular situation. Another striking aspect of this study is that the observations come from three different countries including the violent country of South Africa where intervening in a street dispute is not without risk ... Nevertheless, peacemakers do draw a line according to a follow-up study ... In the case of armed robberies, bystanders intervene far less.[68]

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#203
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're highly comorbid with a lot of common traits.

I just wonder if sociality and ease of establishing and maintaining rapport is contraindicative of ASPD/autism stuff or whether it really is not only just a spectrum in the sense of a spectrum of impairment but also on a continuum from ASPD/autism "Normal" where impairment can still exist as a sort of sub-spectrum without wholly subjugating me to that subclassification where i could otherwise ddmobstrate skills and t…

Hi, I didn't totally understand your writing.

One reason why a lot of things are comorbid: generally, few mental things have "a single gene" but are manifestations of many gene differences and nature.

One reason why a lot of things are comorbid is just that more people are a little something than a lot something, and people who get diagnosed for one thing are more likely to have resources and reasons to be diagnosed for another something.

After rereading your msg, I'm concerned you're looking for some sort of thing like "If I'm sufficiently good at X I can't be Y"

I don't think these things work this way. Many folks on the spectrum share some social skills weaknesses, but social skills challenges are not really what makes them on the spectrum.

In all, all models wrong - some models useful. An attitude of viewing these things from the lens of asking if they help you understand yourself and navigate the world is probably best. I was really worried with labels before I kept repeating to myself 'all models wrong, some models useful'

Depression, ADHD, autism, all models. All 'wrong'.Still, useful sometimes. They aren't meant to be the be all end all though, and they only sometimes (maybe often) accurately represent reality, which is a bit of a silly statement, since there isn't one reality to it all.

There we go, I got more confusing sorry :)

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#204

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

I have autism as well. I don't see normal people as disabled, just different. I think seeing normal people as disabled is a rather myopic perspective, and I sometimes hear it from the community. I don't like it, personally. Typically I believe because many of the times I hear it, it comes with a need for superiority of some kind, and that gets in the way of other various practical things.

It's the same kind of tradeoff in autism vs neurotypical people as you would have in frequency vs momentum with particles, or resolution vs distance in wavelengths. This is because the autistic brain has much less information filtering coming in, so the brain is less 'biased' towards certain things, but also gets completely overwhelmed with information more easily.

I believe that the reason that many autism traits and cPTSD traits are similar is because they are one and the same -- that they are an emergent result of autism as a result of culture and the world, etc, and are not necessarily inherent to the condition. They just appear that way I believe because the mean/median of our cultures and how they interact with the condition tends to create a fixed point where those symptoms generally tend to arise.

This makes some sense if one considers that in cPTSD, it is many, many accumulated little 't' traumas of sensory overwhelm where tiny bits of the experience 'overflow' and aren't properly encoded in the memory system (EMDR, and misc therapeutic techniques attempt to soften this feeling so that those sensations can be re-integrated).

As far as day to day life goes, I believe I am a superb hard problem solver, but conversely, the day-to-day 'normal' things, I find quite challenging and overwhelming. I can buffer them some with supplements, reducing sensory input (having routines, things with little extra Shannon information, etc), to keep me in that valid range of not hitting information overwhelm. But I find life significantly harder due to my autism, despite the few gifts it provides.

There's not really 'autism without intellectual impairments', really only an inverted U curve of sensitivity to information -- which absolutely is an impairment depending upon the situation. I have a few narrow areas of exceptional gifting, due to my brain's sensitivity to information, and also will be shut down for up to hours from a single screaming baby at a Costco for the same reason.

It's all a balance, there's always tradeoffs, and one can certainly move up or down that curve a little bit with suppelements depending upon their personal 'sweet spot'. NAC I've found for me suppresses the symptoms some, and aspartame quite strongly magnifies them for a day or two. I use both, oddly enough, though I greatly prefer NAC for a few reasons.

I hope you found this comment informative and interesting. I am happy to discuss further and am willing to answer any questions and/or thoughts. <3 :')))) :')))) <3 Thank you.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#205

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

I might be missing something here. What does this have to do with this article concerning ASD and the bystander effect.

This has nothing to do with the article. He's just showing his poor lack of conversational skills, typical of the condition that makes him "superior".

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wonder if sociality and ease of establishing and maintaining rapport is contraindicative of ASPD/autism stuff or whether it really is not only just a spectrum in the sense of a spectrum of impairment but also on a continuum from ASPD/autism "Normal" where impairment can still exist as a sort of sub-spectrum without wholly subjugating me to that subclassification where i could otherwise ddmobstrate skills and t…

Hi, I didn't totally understand your writing. One reason why a lot of things are comorbid: generally, few mental things have "a single gene" but are manifestations of many gene differences and nature. One reason why a lot of things are comorbid is just that more people are a little something than a lot something, and people who get diagnosed for one thing are more likely to have resources and reasons to be diagnosed…

No like I know I'm word salad here. I just mean that I wonder to what extent certain tendencies are related to stimulant meds vs a natural desire to like be on my own, playing and entertaining myself, and not relying on anyone else to enrich or make sure I'm ok

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#207

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

It appears that people with high-functioning autism and a high IQ have advantages and disadvantages.

According to https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2016.0030..., crystallized intelligence is reduced, verbal skills and comprehension and coding (psychomotor speed, ability to absorb new material, visual motor speed, drive for achievement) are reduced. However, some other factors like image rotation ability, attention to detail and visual search are enhanced. There might be more "deliberative" decision making that tends to reduce biases and errors. According to https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.02.21265802v..., autistic individuals with exceptional ability suffer disproportionately from high anxiety and low self-worth.

It's a mixed bag with tradeoffs and imbalances, but thinking that normies are disabled just shows that you're overvaluing some factors while undervaluing others.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that concern for injustice is something universal or even necessarily widespread among autistic people. That is, I believe that there are plenty of autistic people who do not give a fuck, eschew social causes completely, feel misanthropic, etc. Rather, I think that the examples you encountered represent that segment of autistic people who do care, and due to the difficulty that autistic people have with…

I think it's more accurate to say that autistic people tend to express their emotions much more intensly than non-autistic people, when they do decide to express them. Most non-autistic people will tend to consider social norms because they innately understand to not disrupt them. Autistic people, especially when they've decided on something, are completely willing to eschew social norms to right a wrong or express t…

I don’t quite see how pointing out to the cashier that you’re being overcharged makes someone neurodivergent. I catch wrong prices all the time and say in a friendly tone “hey can I just get you to double check that, I though I saw it was $x.” If they then say to take it up with customer service thats fine, I don’t press it, but pointing it out as soon as you notice is the best response and in many smaller stores there is no one else to deal with.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#209

bystander effect is not valid in the first place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp... even wikipedia has updated saying Counter example In 2019, a large international cultural anthropology study analyzed 219 street disputes and confrontations that were recorded by security cameras in three cities in different countries—Lancaster, Amsterdam, and Cape Town. Contrary to bystander theory, the s…

The wikipedia page seems slightly one-sided, not mentioning recent high profile cases where people who intervened in public violence or threats of it were severely punished. The perception that this rate might be changing surely contributes to the actions of everyday people.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#210

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

It appears that people with high-functioning autism and a high IQ have advantages and disadvantages. According to https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2016.0030... , crystallized intelligence is reduced, verbal skills and comprehension and coding (psychomotor speed, ability to absorb new material, visual motor speed, drive for achievement) are reduced. However, some other factors like image rotation abi…

You may also be perceiving other people's politeness as incompetence
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