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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#371

Post by junofan »

jacquesm wrote: post #359
invalidname wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Hamas is a cancer on the Palestinian people. > > You are seeing a cause, I'm seeing a symptom. Nonsense. There were two major Palestinian terrorist organizations. The PLO was the older and back in the day the more violent of the two. It was able to get over its aggression and come to a peace settlement with Israel who also put everything behind it. The Hamas blew up busses, cafes etc. Killed MANY civilians in sui…

Terrorism is - historically and in the present - almost always a symptom of a political movement that has radicalized possibly as an outgrowth of a population under occupation or backed into a corner. That's why to me it is a symptom. As for the rest, we are mostly in agreement, I think the latter bit is the key but for that Israel would have to back off of certain policies and they would have to be able to accept th…

We’re talking about a “political movement” elected on an anti-corruption platform that dismantled elections and siphons every dollar of economic aid it can. Let’s call it what it is: a military organization willing to violate international law in exchange for cash. Political movements don’t launch coordinated air, land, and sea attacks or build extensive tunnel networks. As with their anti-corruption campaign, their demonstrated strategic imperative is transparently not in service of the stated political objective.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#372

Post by tupolef »

solarpunk wrote: post #61

how does Israel give evacuation warnings if Palestinian telcos are offline?

Don't forget electricity too. Now IDF says that they use cellphones and leaflets.

- No electricity to charge your cellphone.

- Leaflets from previous strikes flying around in this small area for many days.

- A lot of injured people, hard to move.

- sometime you need to you have to sleep too, how do you check for new flying leaflets outside all the time?

In a war we should just assume that everything is false and true at the same time. Involved people have choosen a side, but others are to assume that everyone involved is lying.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#373

Post by YZF »

jacquesm wrote: post #368
YZF wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't we just try this in Gaza? Abandoned the territory settled? Imagine if Hamas controlled both Gaza and the West Bank? Israel would be destroyed. UN peacekeeping is bullshit. What country is going to trust the UN to guarantee it's security. There is UN peacekeeping in Lebanon where attacks against Israel are and were coming from, they do zilch. The history of UN peacekeepers in the region is that at any hint of v…

> Didn't we just try this in Gaza? Not really. The territory abandoned was systematically kept down to the point where any kind of improvement was destroyed again. And much more is being destroyed right now. What do you think all these bombings will do short of just creating the next 20 years of personnel supply for Hamas? > Abandoned the territory settled? No, it wasn't just abandoned. The houses that were there wer…

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna9331863

And yes, the settlements were razed. The land was not barren. The Palestinians had their destiny in their own hands.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#374

Post by mcpackieh »

jemmyw wrote: post #354
petertodd wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet this did not save Wael Al-Dahdouh's family. As I have repeatedly said, in a war of this nature large numbers of Gazan civilians will inevitably die. As long as Israel eliminates Hamas, this is unavoidable. If Israel fails to eliminate Hamas, large numbers of Israeli's will be killed by Hamas in the future. Between those two options, obviously Israel is going to choose the option where Israli's don't get sla…

They would need to wipe out the entire population of Gaza then, because otherwise all their actions are going to do (doing) is create the next generation of Hamas.

It's so obvious, it's hard to believe this isn't the intent.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#375

Post by fzil »

stavros wrote: post #20
uoaei wrote: post #12

Watching mainstream news as well as tier-2 and -3 outlets perfect the passive voice has been validating for recognizing how status quo services specific political and ideological alignments despite assumptions of an ideal impartiality.

> has been able to keep some of its services online during Israel’s military response to Hamas’s attack. Looks clear-cut whose fault it is, everything was just peachy for everyone until Hamas just decided to attack out of the blue.

> everything was just peachy for everyone until Hamas just decided to attack out of the blue.

Take a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%... for an very short example of Palestinian suffering in this 70+ years of conflict.

Wilful ignorance isn't a good reason to spout nonsense.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#376

Post by dlubarov »

jacknews wrote: post #279
brucethemoose2 wrote: post #202

History suggests expunging determined, fortified, modern militants embedded in a civilian population never goes well. The expunger loses or gets a pyrrhic victory, even with a huge economic advantage. Honestly, however dire the need, I don't see what Israel is thinking. If Israel, the US, Europe, China and Russia all held hands and invaded the Gaza strip together, they still probably couldn't route out Hamas.

Exactly, and in fact they will just create more radicals, and push the existing ones to even more barbaric extremes. I'm starting to feel radical myself, and I have no connection at all to events, other than being able to spot a bully obviously about to carry out systematic barbarism in retribution.

What would you suggest Israel do instead, given the ongoing threat Hamas poses?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#377

Post by bluish29 »

invalidname wrote: post #362
bluish29 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have that but you don't have the counter evidence that it didn't exist This is not the problem, people who claim something have to provide the evidence if asked, you don't respond to them by re-directing the question and ask them for counter-proof. At least in the normal world. I don't know about you. > I get that Israel should be held to a higher standard than the Hamas Providing evidence to claims is now…

> This is not the problem, people who claim something have to provide the evidence if asked No we don't. However, I did provide evidence which you choose to ignore. You also claim that the army would bomb a place for no real reason which just doesn't make sense. Especially for the first target in a campaign. It's you who should provide evidence, not me. > > But your specific attitude makes no sense. Intelligence info…

> No we don't

Thank you, that was the answer that you should just say from the beginning.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#378

Post by jacquesm »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #236

I wonder what is the tipping point for the Arab world. What is the magic number, 10k,20k,100k dead. Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. This could turn into a pretty big war, dragging in all kinds of countries. If they end up destroying all of Gaza and killing 50k and no one does anything then the Palestinians should understand they have b…

Unfortunately it could get even worse than that.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#380

Post by raindear »

arp242 wrote: post #242
im3w1l wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mourning their lives right now, but I have no idea what I could do about any of it.

No one really seems to have any idea. Israel doesn't want these people, and no one else seems to either. We can't force Israel (or anyone else) to take these people, and we can't force Israel to lift their blockage either. So they remain stuck in what's essentially the world's largest open-air prison (the entire Gaza strip is roughly the size of the Dublin metro area, but given that ~500 to 1,000 metres from the bord…

Gaza Strip borders with Egypt too.
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