Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Ask yourself, if Hamas had the a-bomb, would they hesitate to use it?
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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
121–130 of 610 posts
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#122At this point, I think Gaza is pretty much doomed. There won’t be much left at the end of this special military operation.
It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…
> Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future.
Mistakes?
To be clear, before I continue further: Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas also has a lot of support within Palestine.
Now then, scenario 1) how, realistically, do you propose that the regular non-Hamas supporting Palestinian works to eradicate Hamas? Hamas have arms. (Let's not also forget how hard right Israeli leaders also supported Hamas, because a moderate Palestine is not really a true goal of theirs) Israel makes sure that Palestinians do not get access to weapons in general (i.e. Hamas obtains them by smuggling), 2) how do you prevent legions of new Hamas supporters being 'born' every day?
By 2, I mean, if you as a child grow up in the Gaza strip, regularly watching Merkava Israeli tanks cruising up and down your streets, often accompanied by bulldozers demolishing the homes of your friends, how are you likely to react?
Perhaps you pick up a rock and throw it at the tank. Oops. The IDF has on many occasions responded to children, throwing stones and rocks at main battle tanks, with live ammunition.
Good way to foster resentment, that. And maybe you don't support Hamas yet, but you hear of another rocket attack. The Iron Dome takes care of it, but Israel doesn't care - they turn off electricity to the entire strip for a few days in punishment. Not just your home, but your school, your hospital. Or they turn off the internet. Or phone. A few times, they even turn off fresh water.
Maybe now you start thinking you don't agree with Hamas' methods, but they're fighting for your right to survive, something the Israelis don't seem to care overly about, given their attitude to collateral damage.
Any other country on the planet responds like this, these things are considered war crimes. But when it is Israel? Not so much.
Edited to update reference to the tank type per reply.
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Palestinians are not intermittently but continuously oppressed. Israel can stop it at any time but chooses not to, hence the retaliation by the Palestinians. What Israel is doing now is not retaliation but doubling down on their standard M.O. You've got the history backwards, friend.
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Yes, yes, and every country in the world beside old evil Israel would allow it.
China would allow Taiwanese extermists to regularly sneak into China and brutally murder, rape, and torture 600,000 people without obliterating Taiwan.
Russia wouldn't do anything if Ukrainian extremists launched rockets at them regularly - they'd just accept their crazy neighbors for who they are!
And the US would definitely let 9-11 happen, and not invade and occupy two countries (one of which had literally nothing to do with anything) for a decade after.
Only Israel is evil.
/sarcasm in case not obvious.
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Evacuate to where? There's only two border crossings: to Egypt, which I believe is closed. And if Israel is letting Palestinians cross the border into Israel, that'd be news to me.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/10/world/map-israel-hamas-wa...
Simple google and you found the answer - shocking.
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you saying that if they could do that thing they say they would do if they could, that they wouldn't do it?
I don’t know. Neither do you. Let’s stick to reality and what is actually happening right now.
That's.. interesting. When others say they will do things people take them for their word that they will do those things (if Putin stated, hey, I'm going to interfere in lections, for example --oh, we don't know, let's stick to what we know now...). But here, we have equivocation and uncertainty? Huh!
If a government initiates an unannounced attack on neighboring one, specifically seeking out and killing civilians without any restraint whatsoever and moreover mercilessly kills the most vulnerable of a population in personal and gruesome ways, I usually come to the conclusion they would not hesitate to undertake their stated purpose and promises.
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the Health Ministry in Gaza and they've released the exact names of all 6,747 people they could account for. The UN said just 5 days ago that the figure was 5k. Given the increase in intensity 7k does not at all seem unreasonable to me https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142687
"Health Ministry in Gaza" literally the health ministry of Hamas. Why would such organization lie? /s
Danidin wrote:
> "Health Ministry in Gaza" literally the health ministry of Hamas. Why would such organization lie?
This is language that justifies death, by minimizing it. There are likely not perfect, but in the past numbers from the Gaza health ministry haven't been wildly wrong: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-dou...
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…
You’re at best conflating “soldiers” with “soldiers and civilians” in your comment, and at worst implying that this atrocities that affect far more than 8% of one demographic of Gaza’s population is justified collateral damage. That’s completely ignoring the other completely faulty aspects of your comparison, e.g. which populations are being displaced?
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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#128how does Israel give evacuation warnings if Palestinian telcos are offline?
2 weeks ago...
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#129Nearly all of the over 7k people killed in Gaza in the past few days are civilians. Sure Hamas, with the help of the media framing of this as a 9/11, gave them a good Casus belli, but Israel has always been good at finding Casus bellis. When Israel again invaded Gaza in 2014, they killed 2,310 people, 70% civilians and lost 67 soldiers in return. Even more destructive was the 7-10k homes completely demolished and 87k…
If you think any other country with a massively more powerful army would put up with a neighbor intermittently terrorizing them and then hide behind civilians and not respond similarly, I'm not sure what to tell you. Doesn't make it right. But there's no easy way out of this. Look at the US response to 9-11 to see what other countries would do...
If not for the 'massively more powerful army' I'd have a hard time to know who you were talking about. And that's the problem right there.
The US response to 9/11 was to attack the wrong country.
Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. What future would that be? The whole reason this conflict keeps going is because of faulty reasoning like this. Gazan citizens do not have a say in much of anything, they're either combatants, captives or hostages depending on what your perspective from outside Gaza is.
> What future would that be? A future where they stop killing Israeli's and slowly build up the trust to restore normal relations and trade. Gaza was given the chance when Israel decoccupied Gaza in 2005. They decided to vote in Hamas in a democratic election instead. > Gazan citizens do not have a say in much of anything, they're either combatants, captives or hostages depending on what your perspective from outside…
What if Israel stopped killing Palestinians and normalized relations with Gaza? Israel could choose a different path.