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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#91

Post by 3c6bYDXLMj »

petertodd wrote: post #19
_lvbh wrote: post #3

At this point, I think Gaza is pretty much doomed. There won’t be much left at the end of this special military operation.

It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…

You’re at best conflating “soldiers” with “soldiers and civilians” in your comment, and at worst implying that this atrocities that affect far more than 8% of one demographic of Gaza’s population is justified collateral damage.

That’s completely ignoring the other completely faulty aspects of your comparison, e.g. which populations are being displaced?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#92

Post by FireBeyond »

zdragnar wrote: post #49
bluish29 wrote: post #7

Someday, people in the western countries will mourn the lives lost and wish they could help in time. Except this is the time. Not after the fact and a few remains. This is an occurring theme.

[flagged]

Evacuate to where?

There's only two border crossings: to Egypt, which I believe is closed. And if Israel is letting Palestinians cross the border into Israel, that'd be news to me.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#93

Post by whoknowsidont »

culi wrote: post #65
bhouston wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredient…

> have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vas…

[flagged]

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#94

Post by bhouston »

petertodd wrote: post #66
bhouston wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

petertodd wrote: > Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. That is genocidal language where you are holding civilians accountable. The Gazan population does not favor Hamas according to polling prior to October 7th: https://twitter.com/ForeignAffairs/status/171800792755696451... Hamas was also boosted by Netanyahu in part to prevent a two-state solution and diminish mo…

Hamas has an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 soldiers(1). That's about 6% to 8% of the entire adult Gazan male population. It's impossible to have that many soldiers without widespread support. Maybe not a majority. But certainly a significant minority. Like it or not, a significant percentage of the adult Gazan population are responsible for Hamas because they're actively fighting for Hamas or directly supporting them. P…

> It's impossible to have that many soldiers without widespread support. Maybe not a majority. But certainly a significant minority.

Israel wanted Hamas to rule Gaza though and supported it financially while working against moderate Palestinians:

> Netanyahu said: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, ... This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-ga...

This means that this attacks of Hamas by Israel is unlikely to lead to a better situation post war, because Netanyahu's position is to always have a reason why the Palestinians should not have freedom.

It is more likely that things just get worse for the Palestinians after this war.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#96

Post by mcpackieh »

culi wrote: post #65
bhouston wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredient…

> have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vas…

White American Evangelicals are insane, they think it is their religious obligation to support Israel no matter what as a precondition for the resurrection of Jesus. White American Evangelicals are far more fanatical in their support of Israel than, for instance, American Jews.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-whit...

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-eva...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evan...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#97

Post by [deleted] »

petertodd wrote: post #10

> Taking Gaza completely off the grid while launching an unprecedented bombardment campaign only means something atrocious is about to happen. A war is happening of course. Communications are critical to military operations, and Hamas has been happy to use civilian infrastructure for military purposes. Of course Israel is going to destroy it all. Sure, Hamas can still use older tech like radios. But that's a huge win…

[deleted]

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#98

Post by culi »

zdragnar wrote: post #49
bluish29 wrote: post #7

Someday, people in the western countries will mourn the lives lost and wish they could help in time. Except this is the time. Not after the fact and a few remains. This is an occurring theme.

[flagged]

This is propaganda. The UN is begging Israel to allow aid in:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/un-gaza-aid-is...

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#99

Post by petertodd »

culi wrote: post #33

Nearly all of the over 7k people killed in Gaza in the past few days are civilians. Sure Hamas, with the help of the media framing of this as a 9/11, gave them a good Casus belli, but Israel has always been good at finding Casus bellis. When Israel again invaded Gaza in 2014, they killed 2,310 people, 70% civilians and lost 67 soldiers in return. Even more destructive was the 7-10k homes completely demolished and 87k…

[flagged]

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#100

Post by theossuary »

petertodd wrote: post #66
bhouston wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

petertodd wrote: > Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. That is genocidal language where you are holding civilians accountable. The Gazan population does not favor Hamas according to polling prior to October 7th: https://twitter.com/ForeignAffairs/status/171800792755696451... Hamas was also boosted by Netanyahu in part to prevent a two-state solution and diminish mo…

Hamas has an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 soldiers(1). That's about 6% to 8% of the entire adult Gazan male population. It's impossible to have that many soldiers without widespread support. Maybe not a majority. But certainly a significant minority. Like it or not, a significant percentage of the adult Gazan population are responsible for Hamas because they're actively fighting for Hamas or directly supporting them. P…

That was after the allied powers realized their mistake in exacting retribution on Germany after WWI. The desire to take a future away from Germans directly led to the rise in Nazism. Ironically enough that's the same reason Hamas has widespread support. It's easier to sacrifice everything when you have nothing.

Maybe we should learn the lessons of WWII, and allow Palestinians a future. Otherwise it is genocidal language.

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