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Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

phys.org

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Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#271

Post by parineum »

mandmandam wrote: post #265
c23gooey wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's scientists saying all this; Please link to the science, then we can form our own judgement

I'm not your research assistant, and this isn't some weird or obscure claim that I'm making.

You're the one who claims to have seen the evidence. If you've seen it, but won't show it to anyone, I'm not going to be convinced of anything other than being suspicious it doesn't exist.

You made several assertions a post ago and I'm skeptical about all but one of them and the one I'm not skeptical about has an implication I am skeptical about.

> It fucks up ecosystems.

In what way?

> It lingers on our food.

Agree but I've not seen this shown to be an issue.

> It bonds with abundant minerals like calcium and magnesium and does unexpected shit.

For example?

> It comes in Roundup with a cocktail of chemicals that increase bioavailability and toxicity.

So glyphosate is not harmful without this cocktail? I don't understand the implication here. It sounds like _Roundup_ is the issue, not glyphosate.

> It has links to chronic kidney disease and cancer.

Cookies have links to chocolate chips. It doesn't mean cookies cause chocolate chips.

"Links" are just that, links. What you want to prove are _Causal Links_. Links require further research and don't prove anything.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#272

Post by improv »

tptacek wrote: post #209
improv wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/637722786/jury-awards-termina... >"We are sympathetic to Mr. Johnson and his family," Monsanto Vice President Scott Partridge said in a statement following the verdict. "Today's decision does not change the fact that more than 800 scientific studies and reviews ... support the fact that glyphosate does not cause cancer, and did not cause Mr. Johnson's cancer." >He confirmed the company…

They're not making up the weight of the scientific evidence there.

Why do you think the jury ruled the way it did then?

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#273

Post by bumby »

improv wrote: post #152
metadat wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem was they marketed it as practically nontoxic to humans, Has their marketing stance changed? Or does Glyphosate continue to be marketed as a relatively safe solution? Roundup is still for sale at Home Depot, they sell massive quantities of it every day .

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/637722786/jury-awards-termina... >"We are sympathetic to Mr. Johnson and his family," Monsanto Vice President Scott Partridge said in a statement following the verdict. "Today's decision does not change the fact that more than 800 scientific studies and reviews ... support the fact that glyphosate does not cause cancer, and did not cause Mr. Johnson's cancer." >He confirmed the company…

I’m not trying to shill for any mega corp, but it’s important to understand that toxicity is dose dependent. By his own words, Mr. Johnson was “showered” in the pesticide as a groundskeeper and didn’t fully change his garments afterwards.

Now I think Monsanto still has a duty to determine what safe levels of exposure are, but it’s important to not extrapolate this level of risk to the average consumer.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#274

Post by bumby »

improv wrote: post #272
tptacek wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not making up the weight of the scientific evidence there.

Why do you think the jury ruled the way it did then?

It’s possible the jury is not scientifically literate. One of the damning emails said “you can’t say Roundup doesn’t cause cancer.”

To a layman, this may be heard as “Roundup can cause cancer.”

To a scientist, this may simply mean “There isn’t sufficient data to make a strong claim.”

Same words, two very different interpretations. That’s why lawyers fight so hard for jury selection.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#275

Post by bumby »

cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #205
throwaway290 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like they evaluated the chemical itself but didn't evaluate what could happen to the chemical once it was in the environment. I bet that's most of evaluations and it's probably not even required to take into consideration the environment and how it can change the response...

And I would hazard a guess that this "mountain of evidence" was bought and paid-for by Monsanto.

Part of this case was that Monsanto “bullied” scientists into favorable reports.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#276

Post by bumby »

positr0n wrote: post #269
orwin wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's a weedkiller. Putting it ON the fruits would be expensive and useless. In conventional/industrial agriculture, its used after harvest and before seeding. In intelligent agriculture , it's used a day before seeding.

Round up or other herbicides are commonly used to uniformly kill and dry out mature wheat, corn, and other grains so harvesting and processing is easier.

I read the OP as making a specific claim about agricultural (not botanical) fruit harvests, not like the grains you mentioned.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#277

Post by thghtihadanacct »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #151
squidbeak wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works at giving people chronic kidney disease and killing them. Probably it shouldn't be used or legal to use it.

Every alternative will kill even more people. Other herbicides are even more dangerous, and not using herbicide will cause food prices to go up. High food prices kill far more people than herbicides do.

>Other herbicides are even more dangerous, and not using herbicide will cause food prices to go up ... This research brought to you by Mansanto :D

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#278

Post by m00x »

robbiep wrote: post #227
Qem wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. It's a weedkiller. Putting it ON the fruits would be expensive and useless. So, why Monsanto went all the trouble of developing GMO crops resistant to it, if it is intended just for the weeds?

There is roundup-ready Cotton, Soybeans, Corn and Canola, that I am aware of. My family grows Roundup-ready cotton. The other 2 are used for animal feed; in no case is any farmer going to be spraying it when it is fruiting, because once the weeds have got to that point you've already lost all the benefit of it being 'roundup ready' - where the purpose is for weeds to be killed so they don't take the moisture which is…

The seed of corn is a fruit, my guy. I'm talking botanically, not culinary.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#279

Post by m00x »

orwin wrote: post #178
m00x wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farms do.

No. It's a weedkiller. Putting it ON the fruits would be expensive and useless. In conventional/industrial agriculture, its used after harvest and before seeding. In intelligent agriculture , it's used a day before seeding.

Typically, yes that's the recommendation.

That doesn't mean it won't be applied at any other time if there's weed issues during other periods of the cycle, or that the farmer will apply it at the right time. A lot of farmers don't know when to apply herbicides, or won't until there are issues to save money.

I was working with a farmer who did most of it by hand or machine and he only needed to apply glyphosate twice in his 20 years as a farmer.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#280

Post by xpe »

tptacek wrote: post #213
xpe wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other explanations for people that have these views that are not anti-scientific. The precautionary principle is one. Not wanting agribusiness to create patented crops is another. Recognizing that what we mean by nutrient-dense foods are more than just synthesizing more vitamin D or niacin in a plant. But sure, there is plenty of irrationality to go ‘round too. Just be rational yourself in understandin…

Why don't you want agribusiness to create patented crops? Nobody's making you plant them. The stories of people unwittingly or unwillingly planting Roundup-Ready crops are easily debunked.

> Why don't you want agribusiness to create patented crops?

I didn’t say that. Please reply to my comment in the context it was offered if you want to discuss.

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