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Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

phys.org

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Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#161

Post by mcpackieh »

xpe wrote: post #45
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peer-reviewed research isn’t a great standard, imo, for many reasons. There are sources available, ultimately it seems to turn into an ideological battle. FAN [1] probably has the most links out to different sets of research. Really it comes down to making your own decision, which is why I don’t think it should be automatically added to the water supply. Fortunately there are options to remove it. [1] https://fluorid…

> Peer-reviewed research isn’t a great standard, imo, for many reasons. What is your recommended alternative?

Replicated research. Peer review is when journals ask other researchers to look at a paper and determine whether it's suitable to be published. Attempting to replicate the findings is typically not part of the peer review process, peer review is a sniff test.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#162

Post by [deleted] »

diogenes4 wrote: post #149
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto. Farmers love glyphosate because it kills weeds very effectively. It’s hard to exaggerate how much of a neat thing glyphosate was considered in the agricultural world when it appeared. That’s the reason it is used. Now, the reason it is produced and sold is that it is profitable for Monsanto, and regulation hasn’t stopped Monsanto.

Glyphosate kills far more than just weeds (whatever those are).

[deleted]

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#163

Post by bumby »

genewitch wrote: post #157
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto. Farmers love glyphosate because it kills weeds very effectively. It’s hard to exaggerate how much of a neat thing glyphosate was considered in the agricultural world when it appeared. That’s the reason it is used. Now, the reason it is produced and sold is that it is profitable for Monsanto, and regulation hasn’t stopped Monsanto.

This sounds great, except it's been proven the glyphosate is not the ingredient that kills the most weeds, the "inert" ingredients when applied alone are vastly more effective. I always think it's funny when glyphosate apologists come out in droves to defend their favorite poison manufacturer. Maybe they actually drank the stuff when Bayer/Monsanto said it was safe to drink?

Where can I read more about the effectiveness of the inert interments and their dosage?

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#164

Post by tharkun__ »

profsummergig wrote: post #122
ses1984 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone tried not using any pesticides or herbicides on their yard? I haven’t dropped anything on my yard except for grass seed in 15 years and it’s fine. So what if there are some weeds on it.

I did. The neighbors lodged a complaint. They didn't buy my theory that the field of dandelions could be turned into wine.

Oh that sucks. Luckily here the city even has flyers on how to have more natural lawns, which works naturally against grubs etc.

We have lots of dandelions, especially close to the street. So do the neighbors though they are the religious once a week mowers.

The trick I find is to let them be beautiful while it's mostly a sea of yellow and then mow as it turns into just ugly stalks with blown away seeds. And have a hedgerow so that you only need to mow the part between that and the street.

I've also sown in clover on purpose. Something many will try to eradicate. Stays green much longer and better in summers when the grass just turns brownish. Some neighbors around us irrigate. I refuse to do that. Very sandy soil to begin with (there's sand pits around) and grass on top of the septic system just doesn't thrive in hot dry summers. So we either get clover green, white and red or brown. Their choice.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#165

Post by Waterluvian »

edrxty wrote: post #94
Waterluvian wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need a ground cover my kids can play on. Clover is a really nice option. The tragedy is that it spreads like a weed, which means my neighbours must accept my choice or install some ridiculous barriers, harming the existing characteristic of us all using each other’s lawn as a common play area. It would be nice if clover was just kind of the de facto standard.

I spent much of my youth playing on gravel, really builds character quickly. Wood chips are another good option, builds good callouses.

While I generally agree, I can’t help but read it with a “back in my day…” mountain of biases.

I remember how I grew up. I want better for my kids, while recognizing that plenty of things were fine enough and that scrapes heal.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#166

Post by codingdave »

algoatecorn wrote: post #26

Let's just take a pause and consider some key information: -This is an association study -If we CTLR+F "cause", "causing", "causal", etc, the only mention of causation is with extremely high levels of flouride and another mention with extremely high levels of glyphosate and zebrafish Now let's zoom way out, and consider the use of glyphosate in general. If you plot grain yields over time compared to herbicide use ove…

When I did a control-F in the study, I didn't find the word "cause" at all. Nor "zebrafish". What document are you looking at?

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#167

Post by m00x »

robbiep wrote: post #154
m00x wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a lot less likely to get roundup in your system from killing weeds outside than eating vegetables and fruits that have been bathed in it.

You don’t spray roundup over vegetables and fruits

Farms do.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#168

Post by isk517 »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #156
isk517 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tooth decay can cause a whole litany of issues so it really is a weighing of pros and cons versus the long term effects of fluoride consumption.

Or just brush and floss properly?

I won't argue about that being the best solution, but as someone that did not start to take dental health seriously until their 30's I don't think I'm in any position criticize others for their failure to do so.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#169

Post by permalac »

thghtihadanacct wrote: post #127
permalac wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it to kill the driveway weeds, works like a charm.

Well, let us know if/when you or your kids get kidney disease or any of the other listed diseases associated with it. I feel knowing the dangers and using it anyway should auto opt-out one out of the class action settlement. Ever try a weed eater or gloves? Gasoline would work just as well, probably less toxic

I'm not eating the weeds.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#170

Post by Natsu »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #126
algoatecorn wrote: post #26

Let's just take a pause and consider some key information: -This is an association study -If we CTLR+F "cause", "causing", "causal", etc, the only mention of causation is with extremely high levels of flouride and another mention with extremely high levels of glyphosate and zebrafish Now let's zoom way out, and consider the use of glyphosate in general. If you plot grain yields over time compared to herbicide use ove…

Nitpick: all studies only show associations. We draw causal inferences from associations. e.g. Duhem-Quine thesis. There’s a meme on social media where people think studies break down into association studies vs casual studies or something.

If you merely observe thermometers and which days feel hot, you'll see a link but won't be able to tell which way causality goes. If you set the thermometer to a high value in a cold room and notice that you don't get any warmer, you'll quickly realize which way causality flows.

So I agree with the GP post, I want to see them modeling & testing causality here.

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