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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#271

Post by worik »

AlexandrB wrote: post #267
vidarh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love not having window borders waste screen estate, and solve the grabbing issue by having the windows key + left mouse button bound to moving windows and windows key + right mouse button to resize. I can "grab" the window anywhere, with no need to hit borders or a title bar (which I also don't have...)

Modern design looooves wasting screen real estate on white space. Partially to look "clean" and partially as a result of avoiding any hint of skeuomorphism. Have to separate different UI elements somehow . Trying to claw some of it back from window borders seems like it's attacking the wrong problem.

Not the Japanese

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#272

Post by marcus_holmes »

pseudalopex wrote: post #249
marcus_holmes wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was perfect ;) Just better than everything that came after it

You said we should have stopped there.

Yes. Because XP with no ability to search the start menu is better than everything that came after it.

That doesn't mean that XP was perfect. There are still faults with it.

But if fixing those faults means iterating on it more, then I'm happy with not.

Things can be imperfect and still better than everything else.

Does that make sense?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#273

Post by worik »

vidanay wrote: post #151
tom_ wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a downvote. OK, let's upgrade that to 2 pounds ;) (Of course, that was a lot of money when we were both young...)

I'd down vote you if I could see the damn tiny arrow.

I voted.

Up. Down. I'm really not sure....

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#274

Post by aniforprez »

i80and wrote: post #248
wilg wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what a gesture is. > If someone among your friends and family has an iOS device, remember how many times you had to show them that certain screens can be scrolled down? I don't know, zero? Maybe let's say once to be charitable. This is not a real problem faced by most people. IMO, this is just people being used to doing it another way.

On the contrary, I've professionally seen even technical users get confused by their OS hiding the scroll bar, and them not realizing what they're looking for requires scrolling. Frankly, it's broken behavior.

People literally did not know that you could scroll the share menu on some versions of android until they specifically added a "fold" to hide half an icon just so people realised that there was more options available. Hiding a scrollbar is so unnecessary. It's one of the best UI/UX elements ever created and people got it right so long ago

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#275

Post by hotnfresh »

jiggawatts wrote: post #230

My pet peeve is Azure Log Analytics. The query results window has a completely non-standard scrollbar setup, even compared to the rest of Azure. The default result set shows 100% useless columns, all of which have the same constant values repeated for each row. E.g.: "subcription id", "location", etc... The useful values are invariably off-to-the-right somewhere, so you have to scroll horizontally. Which you can. Wit…

All of azure’s a web UI is a disaster.

Breadcrumbs that aren’t really breadcrumbs.

“X” that sometimes means back and sometimes means several steps back.

… and the browser back button sometimes does what you expect, and sometimes not.

“X” stacked directly under one of the aforementioned “X”s, which means close, but the other “X” is back, all on a flat ui with the same background and no border.

And yeah, the log analytics that feel like some alien intruder or parasite on the host UI.

It’s a monument of UI insanity.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#276

Post by batiudrami »

EGreg wrote: post #243
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive? And Slack is becoming that way too. Telegram by contrast is a pleasure!

Discord’s interface is extremely busy but if you ever used IRC I think it’s fairly intuitive. It’s a much more complicated app than Telegram with a lot more functionality.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#277

Post by worik »

dbetteridge wrote: post #96
f33d5173 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so fuck me, I guess Obviously not, but you also shouldn't expect the whole world to be designed around your needs. If you have difficulty using the expected input method, you should use alternatives with the same functionality, not expect others to redesign their apps in your preferred way.

That's the wrong mentality tbh Design for the best accessibility first and foremost, then try and make things look "prettier". Disabilities can affect anyone at any time and shouldn't be an afterthought.

> Disabilities can affect anyone at any time and shouldn't be an afterthought.

Yes

It is thr toolkit builder's job.

As an application developer you should not have to

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#278

Post by JohnFen »

f33d5173 wrote: post #88
ryandrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article says, not everyone can use a scroll wheel, and not everyone even has a scroll wheel or touchpad. I personally find using mouse scroll wheels quite painful due to RSI caused from decades of mouse abuse. Yet, designers find scroll bars and up-and-down scroll arrows icky so fuck me, I guess. :(

> so fuck me, I guess Obviously not, but you also shouldn't expect the whole world to be designed around your needs. If you have difficulty using the expected input method, you should use alternatives with the same functionality, not expect others to redesign their apps in your preferred way.

> you also shouldn't expect the whole world to be designed around your needs.

I don't think anyone is expecting that. What's reasonable to expect is that these things are configurable so people can have a UI that works for them.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#279

Post by arcanemachiner »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #265
lstamour wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable (until roughly SP2 came out, which basically was an entirely new OS released as a service pack). Windows 7, which was Vista's equivalent to SP2 also has some fans. Heck, I'd even personally argue that Windows ME has some niceties not seen in…

Ya know one of the first things I do on an XP install is to go in and disable as much of UI faffing about as I can. It takes a couple of clicks, but once you disable themes in XP you get something that looks quite a lot like Windows 2000.

I did it because my computer was a POS. But then it turns out I have a minimalism kink, so I've been doing that ever since.

I use XFCE btw

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#280

Post by JohnFen »

yen223 wrote: post #186
amanzi wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time hearing the term a11y for me too. I hope to never come across it again.

It's interesting to me how almost nobody uses the ` ` (i18n, a11y, etc) convention anymore. I guess ubiquitous autocomplete has made that convention redundant.

It was always a terrible habit.
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