Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 944 posts

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#261

Post by bsder »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the bane that is "progressive scrolling".

"No, we won't actually load the text at the bottom of the scollbar until you scroll down to it--and we'll only load it in a dribble." @#$%^&*()_+!

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#262

Post by forgotmypw17 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #223
TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win95 default was peak Windows UI for me. It had proper shading so you can see the window edges. Min/max/close buttons were high contrast and easy to see, and were big enough to easily click. Window titles were high contrast and clear. The UI was light and snappy unlike XP’s.

What was worse in Windows 98? Or Windows 2000?

Active Desktop and IE Windows Explorer, for one thing.

But also, generally, the difference is that Windows 95 still feels like a "workstation" computer, designed for maximum readability and clarity, while staying in the background and not drawing any attention to itself.

With Windows 98, the OS begins trying to look pretty, which means having more elements and style choices which take attention away from the work.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#263

Post by Gigachad »

Pannoniae wrote: post #206
Gigachad wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I want the app to just set its look exactly. I really don't care if different programs look slightly different as long as its internally consistent in app. What I hate is installing a program that was designed for a KDE distro and because you run gnome all the icons are the same color as the background and alignments on things are whack. Package it all up in a flatpak so it looks and works exactly the same o…

"One complete and verified experience." These words sound sickening to me. None of these have anything to do with accessibility, or respecting the user. The user should be in control of his computer. That includes the programs on it. Locking it down so you can have "verified authentic design" is just straight-up user-hostile.

This is the main reason I switched to MacOS. Was sick of everything on Linux being contentiously broken out of the box with the excuse "Oh you are meant to just configure the icon colours and toolbar padding yourself"

The programs can still be open source so you can recompile with whatever look you want, but they should bundle a working experiance by default.

But linux users seem more obsessed with curating custom themes over having things actually work.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#265

Post by inferiorhuman »

lstamour wrote: post #197
marcus_holmes wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the opinion that Windows XP was the maximum usable interface, and we should have stopped there [0]. But then, I might just be old and telling the kids to get off my lawn. [0] this is definitely true for Windows. All subsequent versions of Windows have had worse UX.

Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable (until roughly SP2 came out, which basically was an entirely new OS released as a service pack). Windows 7, which was Vista's equivalent to SP2 also has some fans. Heck, I'd even personally argue that Windows ME has some niceties not seen in…

Ya know one of the first things I do on an XP install is to go in and disable as much of UI faffing about as I can. It takes a couple of clicks, but once you disable themes in XP you get something that looks quite a lot like Windows 2000.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#266

Post by 6510 »

foresto wrote: post #176
vidarh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love not having window borders waste screen estate, and solve the grabbing issue by having the windows key + left mouse button bound to moving windows and windows key + right mouse button to resize. I can "grab" the window anywhere, with no need to hit borders or a title bar (which I also don't have...)

The point is not to deny your preferences, but rather that they shouldn't be forced upon everyone else, especially when they break decades of proven usability design and practice.

I disagree, we should force him to use scrollbars until he gets it. Kids these days!

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#267

Post by AlexandrB »

vidarh wrote: post #155
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

I love not having window borders waste screen estate, and solve the grabbing issue by having the windows key + left mouse button bound to moving windows and windows key + right mouse button to resize. I can "grab" the window anywhere, with no need to hit borders or a title bar (which I also don't have...)

Modern design looooves wasting screen real estate on white space. Partially to look "clean" and partially as a result of avoiding any hint of skeuomorphism. Have to separate different UI elements somehow.

Trying to claw some of it back from window borders seems like it's attacking the wrong problem.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#268

Post by fingerlocks »

rayiner wrote: post #175
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

“Morons” is the right word. I don’t like to gratuitously shit on people doing their jobs. But what the hell? I can’t move a window anymore without clicking around like an idiot to figure out what’s part of the title bar and what’s a button. Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams. If I open a PDF in New Teams from the file browser, it’s not obvious how to close the PDF without los…

Oh wow I thought the New Teams menu was an internal dog food thing for Microsoft employees. I’m so sorry, it’s absolutely maddening. Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either, and many hours a week are wasted complaining about it.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#269

Post by worik »

MenhirMike wrote: post #193
marcus_holmes wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the opinion that Windows XP was the maximum usable interface, and we should have stopped there [0]. But then, I might just be old and telling the kids to get off my lawn. [0] this is definitely true for Windows. All subsequent versions of Windows have had worse UX.

Windows 2000 was the last truly great Windows for me. It was the last Windows version that had a working "Find in File Contents" feature without having to install grepwin.

Windows 3.1 for me

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#270

Post by pseudalopex »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #262
pseudalopex wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was worse in Windows 98? Or Windows 2000?

Active Desktop and IE Windows Explorer, for one thing. But also, generally, the difference is that Windows 95 still feels like a "workstation" computer, designed for maximum readability and clarity, while staying in the background and not drawing any attention to itself. With Windows 98, the OS begins trying to look pretty, which means having more elements and style choices which take attention away from the work.

You could turn off Active Desktop and IE Windows Explorer? And what in Windows 98 or Windows 2000 took attention away from the work?
Post reply on HN