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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#241

Post by airtonix »

gonzo41 wrote: post #118
treyd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's blatant how UI designers don't give a damn about the users' needs, not even in FOSSland. Especially with this new "don't theme my app" movement. It's really unfortunate. The issues with CSS stylesheets in GTK should be solved with replacing CSS with a better way to describe styles, not with just throwing it all away and not letting the user set their own themes.

There's also the consideration that a decent style sheet can be ~100 - 200 lines long. Yet I see ~5000 line css files that have so much custom formatting for JS frameworks that build everything with divs, rather than using semantic HTML5 which has accessibility baked in.

[dead]

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#242

Post by pseudalopex »

lstamour wrote: post #217

For those looking to accessibly scroll webpages: if not visually impaired, could I introduce you to the powerful combination of hitting spacebar to scroll down webpages and (in Firefox, at least) hitting the / (forward slash) key to bring up the "quick search" window? From there, you can type in whatever you want to select or bring into focus that you see on the screen. It's a great way to quickly move the focus to a…

Could I introduce you to space bar typing space or pressing a button instead? Could I introduce you to someone who uses eye tracking and voice control not having the keyboard dexterity you assumed?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#243

Post by EGreg »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive? And Slack is becoming that way too.

Telegram by contrast is a pleasure!

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#244

Post by xp84 »

jorvi wrote: post #191
barrysteve wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more, there's no attempt to structure information anymore. All the settings menus are a nightmare of lists upon lists and each app has a completely random layout for it's menu-ing, often with links to external sites, for what could be set locally. It is geniunely confusing to try and understand the designers intent. I can never tell if I missed a setting, or if it was never meant to exist in this menu at all. Th…

This was one of the biggest powers of Mac OS X, before Electron became big. Not many companies and people developed for Mac OS X, but the ones that did pretty strongly adhered to Apple’s design guidelines, partially because it just made dev live easier and partially because your application would stick out like a sore thumb if you didn’t. At least the global menu still lives on macOS. I’m sad Gnome 3 didn’t pilfer it…

Seriously. When I think of my daily tools I’m not sure I have even one application with a standard UI. Not one. JetBrains IDEs may be the closest, but I’ve already seen their UI reboot coming (soon mandatory I assume) and it’s disgusting.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#245

Post by fsckboy »

addicted wrote: post #199
marcus_holmes wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the opinion that Windows XP was the maximum usable interface, and we should have stopped there [0]. But then, I might just be old and telling the kids to get off my lawn. [0] this is definitely true for Windows. All subsequent versions of Windows have had worse UX.

I thought Windows 7 was pretty good. Vista eliminated the Fisher Priceness of XP but added a whole bunch of glowing and reflective stuff, which Windows 7 toned down dramatically. I don’t remember if Win 7 still allowed you to have the classic start menu, but I do believe I was ok with what it did have.

there's a great add-on called... ClassicShell http://classicshell.net/

I stopped using windows after Using Win10 for a short time, but ClassicShell was always maintained and worked flawlessly... oh, dev stopped in 2017. oh well.

the source was released and there is a fork that has recent changes https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#246

Post by pseudalopex »

Pannoniae wrote: post #206
Gigachad wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I want the app to just set its look exactly. I really don't care if different programs look slightly different as long as its internally consistent in app. What I hate is installing a program that was designed for a KDE distro and because you run gnome all the icons are the same color as the background and alignments on things are whack. Package it all up in a flatpak so it looks and works exactly the same o…

"One complete and verified experience." These words sound sickening to me. None of these have anything to do with accessibility, or respecting the user. The user should be in control of his computer. That includes the programs on it. Locking it down so you can have "verified authentic design" is just straight-up user-hostile.

Those words reminded me of Apple's 1984 commercial.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#247

Post by treyd »

Gigachad wrote: post #190
Pannoniae wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. GNOME/GTK is a lost cause in my eyes. Literally worse UX than Windows. The developers basically say "fuck you" if your use case does not perfectly align with their "vision".

Honestly I want the app to just set its look exactly. I really don't care if different programs look slightly different as long as its internally consistent in app. What I hate is installing a program that was designed for a KDE distro and because you run gnome all the icons are the same color as the background and alignments on things are whack. Package it all up in a flatpak so it looks and works exactly the same o…

I disagree. The user has accessibility needs and preferences that the app developers necessarily can't know about. App developers shouldn't be trying to enforce styles/themes/icons on the user when they might be completely unusable depending on their needs. The inconsistencies between KDE and GNOME apps/themes are annoying, but that's a solvable problem.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#248

Post by i80and »

wilg wrote: post #90
nine_k wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gesture is an action . It's good, and it works as intended. A scrollbar is (also) an indication , glanceable, not requiring any action. If someone among your friends and family has an iOS device, remember how many times you had to show them that certain screens can be scrolled down? Oh, not just down, but also to the right? There used to be a few perfectly aligned views that had no indication whatsoever that there'…

I know what a gesture is. > If someone among your friends and family has an iOS device, remember how many times you had to show them that certain screens can be scrolled down? I don't know, zero? Maybe let's say once to be charitable. This is not a real problem faced by most people. IMO, this is just people being used to doing it another way.

On the contrary, I've professionally seen even technical users get confused by their OS hiding the scroll bar, and them not realizing what they're looking for requires scrolling.

Frankly, it's broken behavior.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#250

Post by AlexandrB »

pseudalopex wrote: post #220
marcus_holmes wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the opinion that Windows XP was the maximum usable interface, and we should have stopped there [0]. But then, I might just be old and telling the kids to get off my lawn. [0] this is definitely true for Windows. All subsequent versions of Windows have had worse UX.

Windows XP couldn't search the start menu.

That's why Launchy exists: http://www.launchy.net/

Incidentally, I still use it in Windows 10. Probably more out of habit than anything else.

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