A suicide crisis among veterinarians • Hacker News Board

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#141

Post by dan-robertson » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

How much profit do you think is being made in that $10k skewer removal?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#142

Post by johnla » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

qohen wrote: post #107

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading about how "sticking your head in an oven" was a legitimate suicide method when using coal gas ovens. When people switched to natural gas/electric, the suicide rate dropped drastically: >The switch from coal gas to natural gas also had one unexpected effect. During the ‘50s and ‘60s, about half of the suicides in Britain were by coal gas. By the ‘70s, when the transition to natural gas was complete,…

For those unfamiliar with Dorothy Parker[0] and/or that punchline, here's the poem, Resumé, that it's from[1]: Resumé By Dorothy Parker Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren’t lawful; Nooses give; Gas smells awful; You might as well live. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Parker [1] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44835/resume-56d22415...

Dark comedic thought: if a prerequisite to suicide is to get your affairs in order and leave behind a clean house, suicide would be very low; ugh, too lazy to clean. I'll just live instead.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#143

Post by NalNezumi » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

candybar wrote: post #48

pydry wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of bridge fences being successful at bringing down overall suicide: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610560/

Yup, suicidal attempts are often impulsive, so any barrier (in this case literally) even if it's relatively easy to get around, reduces suicide rates. Here's another study, this time on firearms: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... > The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who d…

This makes me wonder more about the idea of legalizing assisted (pain-free) suicide, with the caveat that the process needs a lengthy evaluation time (background check for no coercion, mental evaluation etc).

I wonder if it would have the opposite effect, reducing suicide rate by picking up the people so hopeless they would've just jumped a bridge/bought a gun if the option of peaceful suicide didn't exist.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#144

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

jncfhnb wrote: post #97

mynameisash wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* FTC acts against private equity firm's acquisition of veterinary clinics[0] * Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates [1] I'm not opposed to people making money and having a comfortable life, but the fact that private equity is capitalizing on vet clinics is telling. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31728350 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36313967

Private equity companies frequently purchase struggling businesses, not prosperous ones

[deleted]

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#145

Post by FrankoDelMar » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #91

Fomite wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So one of the things that comes up a lot is that it's not actually that correlated with cost. Most vets I know (I also work for a state school, not a for profit company) are very sympathetic toward very large and expensive bills, and have always been up front about cost in a way that human medicine is not. There's also a myriad of ways they try to reduce bills when they can. The toll is from folks who aren't spending…

The absolute amount of money is irrelevant, it matters what percentage of a person's disposable income it is. $10k is nothing if you making half a million dollars a year and have $200k in credit with no balance, because your disposable income is probably $400-450k/yr. $200 is a ruinous amount of money if you make minimum wage and take the bus to work because your disposable income is very likely negative.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#146

Post by fishyjoe » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

rcarr wrote: post #120

fishyjoe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You admit not having experience with a certain field and then laugh at the terminology they commonly use? Your comment is unhelpful and barely related to the article. Then you get mad at a group for presumably downvoting your irrelevant comment? Also, I don't feel like "empathizing with animals" is a huge insight that you've cracked. Most people do it.

Yes, genuine people who aren't playing social games laugh spontaneously , they don't contact the moral police to determine whether they can laugh or not. Other people who are more prone to going with the herd will wait to see what other people are doing and then determine whether they should laugh or not. You actually can see this in real time watching stand up comedians - for certain jokes the majority of the crowd…

I did not downvote you.

It's barely related to the article because it is about suicide and you come in to tell an anecdote about how funny you find it that they use a certain word. Just completely tone-deaf. It's the word they use, nothing funny about it, and an article about suicide among vets is not the place for it.

People having different viewpoints does not make you immune to criticism. You could just not talk, you're not the center of the universe.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#147

Post by cowmoo728 » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

dan-robertson wrote: post #141

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

How much profit do you think is being made in that $10k skewer removal?

probably a significant amount, otherwise private equity wouldn't be buying veterinary practices all around the nation. I know that the service I receive at a veterinary clinic I used to go to has become worse, a number of vets quit and were replaced with new younger ones, and the price increases have drastically outpaced inflation. all after the original partners sold to private equity.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#148

Post by alwa » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

vector_spaces wrote: post #30

Dig1t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and then pressured the owner give the pup up when they couldn't afford that My wife is a vet and I hear about this often. From the vet's perspective, if the owner gives up the puppy then they don't have to put the puppy down. Putting down a puppy is heart-wrenching. You can't give out free medical care, she regularly gives as many discounts as she's allowed to give away, even some she's not supposed to, especially f…

Why is it like that though? Like what are the economics of performing the procedure that it's possible for it to be free if the owner gives it up? Does someone different ultimately foot the bill?

In the case the article mentioned, yes. The vet found someone willing to adopt the puppy and foot the bill for the heroic intervention.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#149

Post by hotnfresh » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

TehShrike wrote: post #125

I grew up on a farm. We lost a couple sheep. We had at least 3 different dogs over the time I lived there. We had a swarm of cats that came and went. We had a baby goat that died from tetanus, that was rough to watch. At least most of the chickens that died were because we butchered them. Animals die. It sucks, but way less than a human dying. Maybe life would be easier for vets if their customers had a more temporal…

I also grew up “country”, descending from a long line of rednecks.

I think growing up around livestock and farm-pets (cats belong in the barn and are basically disposable…) leads to a super-different relationship with animals from what city folk have. Being around, and dealing, a lot more death. Doesn’t hit one as hard as people who didn’t have that experience.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#150

Post by zargon » Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #126

Doe-_ wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into pet insurance. The best cover I could find would have cost me £250/year, and would only cover up to £7500. It cost me £7000 for my cat to spend 2 days in "ICU", nothing surgical, though they did do a _cat scan_ and put him on oxygen. I found the cost of insurance ludicrous given how expensive the vet was and how little the insurance would cover. Granted ICU is expensive, I would still expect there to be…

Exactly this! People think they are spending $25/month and getting full coverage in case something happens, but the reality is that if you have a fairly healthy pet, you're just better off self-insuring and putting that money into an interest bearing account instead. The insurance companies have done all the math and are counting on you making an emotional decision.

I self-insured my previous cat. About a year after she passed of cancer, when I felt I was ready for another pet, I did the math for insurance. I would have paid a lot less with the insurance plan I found. So my new cats have insurance.

The costs for my previous cat were heavily skewed to the end of life period. But if there is ever an an accident or other emergency situation during their youth, the insurance would work out even more favorably. If I never end up having to use it, all the better.