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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

bbc.com

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#61

Post by I_Am_Nous »

candybar wrote: post #48
pydry wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of bridge fences being successful at bringing down overall suicide: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610560/

Yup, suicidal attempts are often impulsive, so any barrier (in this case literally) even if it's relatively easy to get around, reduces suicide rates. Here's another study, this time on firearms: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... > The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who d…

I remember reading about how "sticking your head in an oven" was a legitimate suicide method when using coal gas ovens. When people switched to natural gas/electric, the suicide rate dropped drastically:

>The switch from coal gas to natural gas also had one unexpected effect. During the ‘50s and ‘60s, about half of the suicides in Britain were by coal gas. By the ‘70s, when the transition to natural gas was complete, the number of gas suicides had dropped to zero and the overall suicide rate was down a third. Even the suicidal appreciate convenience. If it's too much trouble, as Dorothy Parker said, "You might as well live."[1]

1. https://gizmodo.com/why-have-people-stopped-committing-suici...

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#62

Post by mynameisash »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> Can you not see how that would be viewed as insanely predatory? I assume you must be an expert in the cost structure of operating a veterinary practice in that location, at that time, in order to determine a predatory and non predatory price. If you are not, I am not sure how you can make any claim about the prices. >For profit companies should not be involved in human or animal medicine. What kind of quality of li…

* FTC acts against private equity firm's acquisition of veterinary clinics[0]

* Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates [1]

I'm not opposed to people making money and having a comfortable life, but the fact that private equity is capitalizing on vet clinics is telling.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31728350

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36313967

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#63

Post by freedomben »

makeitdouble wrote: post #27
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

We already have a crisis of homeless/stray animals out there. I can't imagine how much worse it would get if we only allowed the 1% of the population with $10,000 or more to spare in case the pet needs surgery to own pets. Also suicides will go up. Pets are an important source of companionship and oxytocin/closeness for people who live alone.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#64

Post by naniwaduni »

stef25 wrote: post #56
lotsofpulp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you not see how that would be viewed as insanely predatory? I assume you must be an expert in the cost structure of operating a veterinary practice in that location, at that time, in order to determine a predatory and non predatory price. If you are not, I am not sure how you can make any claim about the prices. >For profit companies should not be involved in human or animal medicine. What kind of quality of li…

How much of that 10K would be Mercedes money ? It goes without saying that a vet should have higher than average income considering the length and cost of study and responsibility etc. Not at all trying to say that they're greedy.

Not sure why this goes without saying.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#65

Post by danielmg »

unshavedyak wrote: post #50
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #39

My wife is a vet. One big issue is that most people don’t have pet insurance. But they do have medical insurance. As a consequence they are completely surprised by the out-of-pocket costs of medical procedures. Hip surgery (to pick something at random) is hip surgery, even if it’s for a dog. It still costs thousands of dollars. But a significant portion of the population expects to pay what they would pay for insuran…

Also, not sure how common it is, but an extended friend of mine was a vet tech. She quit due to the emotional toll of seeing animal abuse. Specifically sexual abuse. Apparently they had very limited tools to actually deal with the problem and instead had to give the dogs back to the abusers. That was not an emotional burden that she could continue with. Not something I would have thought vets would have to deal with.

I used to work with a guy who developed photos in a lab in the 90s. He saw far too much stuff along those lines.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#66

Post by armchairhacker »

makeitdouble wrote: post #27
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

I agree that people shouldn't adopt a pet unless they have stable finances which are enough to pay for pet insurance and/or unexpected vet bills.

Sometimes people's finances change though, and then (assuming it wasn't serious money mismanagement) I think it's cruel to say they should give up their pet.

Pet insurance should be front-loaded, so you have to pay a lot the first few months, but if you stop paying you get to keep the insurance at least for a while.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#67

Post by fishyjoe »

rcarr wrote: post #37
rcarr wrote: post #17

I'm not really an animal person and I briefly dated a vet once and it always used to crack me up how when she was telling a story she would refer to the animals as patients. Like I get it, animals are sentient, have emotions, are intelligent, have ways of communicating etc. But there is still something inherently funny about this to me, like a sketch show where you're zoomed in on what you assume are two doctors in w…

[flagged]

You admit not having experience with a certain field and then laugh at the terminology they commonly use?

Your comment is unhelpful and barely related to the article. Then you get mad at a group for presumably downvoting your irrelevant comment?

Also, I don't feel like "empathizing with animals" is a huge insight that you've cracked. Most people do it.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#68

Post by reisse »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> Can you not see how that would be viewed as insanely predatory? I assume you must be an expert in the cost structure of operating a veterinary practice in that location, at that time, in order to determine a predatory and non predatory price. If you are not, I am not sure how you can make any claim about the prices. >For profit companies should not be involved in human or animal medicine. What kind of quality of li…

> I assume you must be an expert in the cost structure of operating a veterinary practice in that location, at that time, in order to determine a predatory and non predatory price.

You don't have to be an expert when you can compare vet prices in US and in other parts of the world. And unlike human healthcare, vet is not subsidized anywhere, so the comparison is fair.

With the price tag of 10K$ I'd say it would be worth to take a flight to Mexico, other LatAm countires, or even Eastern Europe to pay tenth of the price for the same operation.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#69

Post by philomath_mn »

makeitdouble wrote: post #27
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

So every pet owner without at least $10k set aside for pet emergency care is a bad owner. That describes 99% of pet owners.

I agree people should plan for more pet-related costs than they do, but, as technology progresses, there doesn't seem to be a ceiling on the amount you _could_ spend to save a pet.

In my case, we have always taken in rescue animals. So the choice is between leaving the pet at shelter or a life in a good home with some limited options when it comes to end-of-life care. I think the latter option is more humane.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#70

Post by scythe »

9991 wrote: post #33
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> no matter how much they are loved I don't buy it. If their kid needed a couple thousand dollars to live, a lot more people would be able to scrounge it up. If they can't do the same for their pet, maybe they actually do love their pet less ... and that's OK.

Your child is very likely to outlive you. In fact, to some, this is a major reason to have children.

On the other hand, your pet will die in your lifetime, unless you are very old or die unexpectedly. So most people are probably prepared for this emotionally on some level.

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