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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#81

Post by iteria »

9991 wrote: post #33
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> no matter how much they are loved I don't buy it. If their kid needed a couple thousand dollars to live, a lot more people would be able to scrounge it up. If they can't do the same for their pet, maybe they actually do love their pet less ... and that's OK.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't spend a couple thousand dollars to save their own lives, let alone their kids. People get hit with thousands of dollars for their kid because once it gets bad enough, the system takes over and stick you with the bill. If people got a choice, they would not always choose their child. I can guarantee you this. We can see this where parents do get a choice: dental and vision care. There are a lot of kids suffering and going without because of a few hundred dollars.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#82

Post by nanolith »

I know that it's a tough and often thankless job. People don't understand the real cost of pet care.

Euthanasia is difficult, especially with pets. Pets are very much like children. I make it a point when calling on a veterinarian for end-of-life care for my pets and my family's pets to talk with them and thank them afterward. It is absolutely hard for anyone in the room when a beloved pet is euthanized. That's a heavy burden for a vet to carry day after day, and it's crucial that they are reminded that they are doing the pet and the family a kindness. Intellectually, I'm sure they realize this. But, it's a brutal emotional situation, and I think it's important that they are shown gratitude for taking that on.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#83

Post by somenameforme »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #53
watwut wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non predatory thing then is to help the owner to put the pet down painlessly and quickly for reasonable price. Without guilting the owner into 10000 operation.

I do not see any evidence of guilting. > The incident involved a four-month-old German Shepherd puppy who'd swallowed a skewer and needed emergency surgery life-saving surgery. The cost of the complicated procedure and after care was close to $10,000 – more than the owner could afford. As a last resort, to avoid euthanasia, the clinic offered her the option to surrender the puppy to a new owner who could cover the co…

Is a million dollars a reasonable price? The point I make is that you might not be able to tell a reasonable price, per se. But you can generally tell an unreasonable price. It's some x-rays, animal quality anesthesia/meds, and labor. It's hard to see how this reasonably adds up to $10,000.

Were time not an issue, they could probably take a trip to Mexico, get the operation done for maybe a few hundred dollars, and come back home, all for much less money than the vet was asking. And the reason I think that's particularly relevant is that it's not like the underlying costs really change. That clinic in Mexico is probably importing those drugs and machines from the exact same places. So developing world costs tend to give you a 'raw materials' cost, where all that's left is labor + profit.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#84

Post by freedomben »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #58
vector_spaces wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it like that though? Like what are the economics of performing the procedure that it's possible for it to be free if the owner gives it up? Does someone different ultimately foot the bill?

I can't see it as anything other than emotional extortion. It's not like the animal shelter is paying for that care. It's being written off, and the reason it's being written off is they make so much from the owners that do pay they can afford to do so.

From a microeconomic perspective (which is also my own), I agree completely. I am trying to consider the macroeconomic perspective as well though, which quickly spirals into bankruptcy if they just start doing treatment for free for people who can't/won't pay for it. Unless/until we make it easier and cheaper for people to go to vet school, they have to make money.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#85

Post by wing-_-nuts »

reisse wrote: post #79
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you're joking, but it wouldn't hurt to have a nationwide nonprofit pet insurance offering.

That'd be literally putting out fire of exorbitant vet costs with taxpayers money gasoline.

I never said 'government funded', just non profit

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#86

Post by reisse »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #85
reisse wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be literally putting out fire of exorbitant vet costs with taxpayers money gasoline.

I never said 'government funded', just non profit

Sorry, I mistakenly implied government participation from "nationwide nonprofit".

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#87

Post by amanaplanacanal »

makeitdouble wrote: post #27
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

Compared to animals in the wild, or animals we raise for food, our pets have it pretty good, even if we have to put them to sleep rather than pay an expensive vet bill. A painless death at the vet seems like nothing comparatively.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#88

Post by operatingthetan »

randmeerkat wrote: post #40
Dig1t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and then pressured the owner give the pup up when they couldn't afford that My wife is a vet and I hear about this often. From the vet's perspective, if the owner gives up the puppy then they don't have to put the puppy down. Putting down a puppy is heart-wrenching. You can't give out free medical care, she regularly gives as many discounts as she's allowed to give away, even some she's not supposed to, especially f…

> …do the procedure for free but then the owner has to give up the animal. Why go through the trouble of rehoming the pet when it already has a home that loves it..?

Yeah it seems sort of like a punishment for being to poor to pay for the expensive vet care.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#89

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

yawnr wrote: post #23
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are completely out of touch with reality and the people from all walks of life who have and care for pets. Please keep your terrible opinions to yourself.

Someone is clearly out of touch with reality.

Here's another terrible opinion: pet owners have skewed the economy of veterinarianism such that farmers and livestock owners have trouble getting vets because they're too busy dealing with the guy on reddit the other day whining about how he spent $2000 on a credit card to save his pet rat. Supply is limited (much like doctors, only so many seats at vet schools), and demand for pet veterinarians outstrips it to the point that the one in the article was talking about having a half million in student debt.

You're making the world a worse place than it has to be. Your cat spread T. gondii everywhere, has decimated (or worse) local song bird populations, and your house smells.

Just because you're in the majority, doesn't mean you're in the right about this.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#90

Post by Mezzie »

DangitBobby wrote: post #18
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

Absolutely. Any time we have a routine visit, e.g. shots and a checkup, it costs us about $300. I can't remember a single vet visit we had that was less than $100, and we haven't had an emergency visit in years. I have no idea how most people afford it, I assume they just don't take their pets to the vet.

Vet costs vary wildly across different regions.

I just took my cat in for an emergency (little idiot ate plastic and we had to see if she had a block in her when she was continuing to vomit blood) and got her examined, a shot of anti-nausea medication, imaging of her gi tract, and some bland food to take home (which had to be special as she's allergic to chicken protein) for $215. I thought that was pretty damn reasonable honestly.

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