Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 250 posts

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#101

Post by throwaway67743 »

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

I've said you don't need a car all of my life, but after moving out of capital cities it's actually reality that you do need a car, it's just not practical otherwise regardless of how good public transport infrastructure is.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#102

Post by robertlagrant »

hef19898 wrote: post #65
robertlagrant wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that seems to be an almost exclusive US problem On what basis?

That all the public schools I know in Europe, either directly or indirectly, are pretty much of the same quality (differences for specific teachers not withstanding). Sending kids to a different school comes down to personal preferences, ranging from available languages to a school being along the commute of a parent or simple preference of tue kid in question. Selecting where to life based on school quality is simpl…

In the UK people move into catchment areas for better schools. How did you measure this equivalent quality of the schools you've assessed?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#103

Post by hef19898 »

londons_explore wrote: post #98
hef19898 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Norway has oil so, Denmark Sweden and Finland much less so.

https://geology.com/usgs/oil-shale/estonia-sweden-oil-shale....

And just how much money are tzey making of that? Oil nation money?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#104

Post by qwytw »

gruturo wrote: post #61
qwytw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "heavy loud polluting traffic" in the city. yeah, that's great but.. Modern engines are already pretty "clean", significant proportion (if not the majority?) of PM 2.5 and PM 0.1 particles come from breaks and tires so EV are not really the solution for inner city pollution. (and the effect on CO2 emissions is immaterial in this case)

1) Don't let perfect be the enemy of good 2) For the record EV use 99% regenerative braking so at least that source is practically zero 3) Decoupling CO2 emissions from the car means you can upgrade your power grid to be greener without having to replace all the cars already circulating. It's an enormous advantage which should be given due consideration. Also, it's easier to manage the emission of all the CO2 in one…

> For the record EV use 99% regenerative braking so at least that source is practically zero

99% or "practically zero" are hugely overexaggerated claims but yes it's an improvement

> Really, really, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, please.

That's an awful reason to not talk about something. Yes it's an improvement but switching to EVs won't magically eliminate car related pollution in cities (not even remotely close to that) which is something some people seem to believe (and they really shouldn't)

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#105

Post by SiempreViernes »

Nullabillity wrote: post #8

Maybe focus on building out a competent public transport system first, rather than halving the capacity of the commuter rail. Or fix the several islands (both literal and metaphorical) that are effectively cut off from the main system. It's like these people live in a parallel reality where nobody needs to get in our out of the inner city.

Can you explain how changing pollution standards for a few bocks around NK has anything to do with the massive loss of public transport ridership that is triggering the cuts in service?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#106

Post by Nullabillity »

paddim8 wrote: post #54
Nullabillity wrote: post #8

Maybe focus on building out a competent public transport system first, rather than halving the capacity of the commuter rail. Or fix the several islands (both literal and metaphorical) that are effectively cut off from the main system. It's like these people live in a parallel reality where nobody needs to get in our out of the inner city.

Stockholm has great public transport?

Not at all. Anywhere further out like Nacka or Täby are nightmares to get to. Or if neither start nor destination is in the inner city. Or if it's after ~1AM. Or if service in your area is havily reduced (or shut down entirely!) because MTR can't be bothered to respect their drivers. Or if you're in an Arriva area, period.

Maybe it looks brilliant if you're used to some US shithole. But even at its best it can't hold a candle to somewhere like the Copenhagen metro. And even that pales when compared to the trusty car that will take you from anywhere, to anywhere, whenever you want.

Source: lived in Stockholm for 8 years so far, half of which were carless.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#107

Post by ecmascript »

hef19898 wrote: post #83
ecmascript wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess the imported soy lattes of those who made the rule changes are going to have a price increase due to delivery companies that need to upgrade their fleet. ;D

Amazon Logistics is in the process of going fully electric, as are others. The supply of EV and hybrid vans is there, the demand as well as soon as tze existing fleets are going to be replaced as usual.

You obviously don't know Sweden because Amazon is a very small player that just entered the market there and I don't think they make their own deliveries but rather uses already established delivery companies.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#108

Post by belorn »

londons_explore wrote: post #39
hyperman1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can grow. A few cities started car-free or car polution limiting zones. Every year,the zone grows and the rules get stricter. This way makes it safe to feel the waters, tweak public transports, get people's reaction, without killing it in the cradle.

It's pretty expensive for the city to do that. Tons of signage needs to be removed and replaced with every expansion, and if you choose automated enforcement you need to install lots of new cameras and posts too. Easier to start with one big zone over the whole city, and keep making the requirements stricter automatically. Eg. Take the cars age, add the current year, subtract the cars rated mpg, add 10 if it's a dies…

The expansion is part of the official road map. Next year the first zone will be put in practice (stage one), and part of the second half next year the expanded zone is set to be drafted and a new date set for the deployment of stage 2. It is planned that stage 2 should be deployed no later than 2026.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#109

Post by hunter2_ »

cheema33 wrote: post #94
qwytw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

EVs don't use brakes as much as ICE vehicles because of automatic regenerative braking. This converts your forward momentum back into electricity. ICE vehicles use engine braking or brake pads. Both of those are much worse in more ways than one. You might want to cross that off your list of things to complain about when talking about EVs.

The instant torque does blow through tires though. Maybe twice as fast as a typical ICE vehicle? The acceleration on a Tesla is like very, very premium ICE cars that few people have (>300HP). This could easily be tuned out, but that would cripple the thrill, i.e., bad for sales.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#110

Post by robertlagrant »

hef19898 wrote: post #71
robertlagrant wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most kids know how to use the public transportation Not kids from age 3-10, and from then on really just a simple one bus or tram route. There's no point pretending this isn't a big issue. You might say it's worth those people leaving the city to make it happen, but saying it's not life-changing for them is doing them a massive disservice.

I can assure you that somewhere around the 6-7 year mark, it is completely normal for kids to take public transport to go to school. It is where I live, it is in Munich (always fun to end up in the school rush hour sharing the subway with all those little ones riding the train like a pro). It is simply normal for those and nothing even remotely special or weird.

Are you talking about unaccompanied kids?
Post reply on HN