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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#11

Post by reisse »

paganel wrote: post #3
teddyh wrote: post #2

Another article in English: https://www.thelocal.se/20231010/stockholm-to-ban-petrol-and... > Maps here: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... > and here: https://www.dn.se/sverige/bensin-och-dieselbilar-forbjuds-i-... >. Note that the area is comparatively tiny ; 180 000m² according to some articles, closer to 200 000m² according to my measurements – but in any case smaller than 50 acres. O…

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

> not-interested in having a full Western-life experience (which necessitates having a car)

American life experience, you mean? It's totally OK to live in Stockholm, as well as in many other cities in Europe, without a car. Besides, you make it sound like EVs are more expensive than ICE cars. They surely are, but the difference is not that much and subsidies cover a part of it.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#12

Post by poniko »

paganel wrote: post #3
teddyh wrote: post #2

Another article in English: https://www.thelocal.se/20231010/stockholm-to-ban-petrol-and... > Maps here: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... > and here: https://www.dn.se/sverige/bensin-och-dieselbilar-forbjuds-i-... >. Note that the area is comparatively tiny ; 180 000m² according to some articles, closer to 200 000m² according to my measurements – but in any case smaller than 50 acres. O…

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

Generally people with children dont live in the center of Stockholm and a high % already drive electric. Biggest change is that delivery/transport services have to find alternatives and Im really happy about that, everyone benifit from removing "heavy loud polluting traffic" in the city.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#14

Post by paganel »

f6v wrote: post #9
paganel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car?

First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#16

Post by paganel »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #5
paganel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

Do you actually have any evidence that this will happen? Or is this just an evidence-free rant?

I'm already seeing that flight to the suburbs happening here in Bucharest, yes. And, yes, the most recent census has confirmed that flight to the suburbs, that is for your "non-evidence rant" part of your comment.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#17

Post by Etheryte »

Nullabillity wrote: post #8

Maybe focus on building out a competent public transport system first, rather than halving the capacity of the commuter rail. Or fix the several islands (both literal and metaphorical) that are effectively cut off from the main system. It's like these people live in a parallel reality where nobody needs to get in our out of the inner city.

In my experience, the public transport system in Stockholm is pretty fine, is there a specific qualm you have with it? You don't have to be able to drive your car directly into the heart of the city.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#19

Post by johngalt_ »

paganel wrote: post #14
f6v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car? First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

Have you ever heard of school bus?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#20

Post by CalRobert »

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course).

I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fantastic_ to be able to just bike.... everywhere. Or get a train. or bus. Or, sometimes, use a car-share vehicle. It's absolute freedom. And I'm a hell of a lot less worried about my kids being killed by drivers - the leading cause of dead kids in the US.

Even here there's too many Dodge Rams though. And large SUV's - especially electric ones - are increasingly popular.

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