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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#81

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

nerdjon wrote: post #73
boxed wrote: post #6

It's a tiny part of the center of Stockholm. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... has a map. Roughly 4x4 blocks.

I really wish we could get more pedestrian focus in the US. While this does still allow cars, it seems like it's a start. Meanwhile in NY some people are all up in arms about the congestion toll. In Boston a certain subset of people are losing their minds at one of our streets going pedestrian only on Saturdays during the summer. the US really has a crazy relationship with cars

~50% of Americans are sedentary and obese.

They're obviously going to want cars. Walking & cycling are not options (see sedentary).

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#82

Post by coldpie »

DrThunder wrote: post #40
f6v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

Why is what's "required" a consideration? Almost nothing in modern life is required. You don't need AC, heat, refrigeration, video games, movies etc. NONE of that is a requirement and it all contributes to climate change. Part of living in a free society is that you get to have things that aren't required. IF I want to buy the biggest gas guzzling truck there is, I should have the right to do so since I'll be spendin…

This feels like a weird thing to have to explain to someone, but like, the whole purpose of government and regulations is to provide a framework to peacefully resolve conflicts when one person's decisions affect another person. It's kind of how civilization works, you know? Your decision to drive a battletank on public roads affects more than just yourself.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#83

Post by hef19898 »

ecmascript wrote: post #72
thebiss wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article indicates there will be some exceptions: > While it is primarily intended to allow for only fully electric cars, bigger vans with plug-in hybrid engines will also be allowed, and exceptions will be made for ambulances and police cars, as well as cars in which the driver or passenger has a documented disability

So I guess the imported soy lattes of those who made the rule changes are going to have a price increase due to delivery companies that need to upgrade their fleet. ;D

Amazon Logistics is in the process of going fully electric, as are others. The supply of EV and hybrid vans is there, the demand as well as soon as tze existing fleets are going to be replaced as usual.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#84

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

qwytw wrote: post #58
pera wrote: post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

There is absolutely no way that brake wear is higher for EVs. I can practically drive my entire morning commute without braking a single time in my Bolt. Any study that says otherwise is seriously flawed or ignoring one pedal driving.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#85

Post by hef19898 »

londons_explore wrote: post #78
gruturo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's even more shocking about the attitude of the nordic countries? It works pretty nicely, try visiting those places.

The huge oil reserves and tiny population make it much easier to give everyone a good quality of life... It also masks the effects of inefficient decisionmaking.

Only Norway has oil so, Denmark Sweden and Finland much less so.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#86

Post by qwytw »

elric wrote: post #76
qwytw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

That's probably true if you only look at the cars themselves, but don't forget that getting petrol in cars requires a huge petrochemical industry, from oil wells to refineries, pipelines and pumping stations. Each of those steps also emits all kinds of crap. The same is true for electricity from many sources, but overall I suspect EVs come out somewhat better than petrol cars. Of course, cars are generally too big, t…

Yeah, my argument is mainly about pollution in inner cities/densely populated areas (where just switching to EV certainly does not go far enough)

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#87

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

Nullabillity wrote: post #8

Maybe focus on building out a competent public transport system first, rather than halving the capacity of the commuter rail. Or fix the several islands (both literal and metaphorical) that are effectively cut off from the main system. It's like these people live in a parallel reality where nobody needs to get in our out of the inner city.

A parallel reality where you can't drive 4 blocks away and walk?

I love how cars are entitled to every inch of the city.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#88

Post by eptcyka »

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#90

Post by M2Ys4U »

verisimi wrote: post #59

The people in nordic countries seem so naive to me. They trust their governments, their authorities to do this stuff, to both determine the greater good and then implement it. The political class couldn't possibly act immorally, for their own benefit, apparently. Whereas the reality is that these actions are preplanned internationally and designed (by opaque agencies such the club of Rome and the UN) in order for ind…

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