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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#321

Post by scarface_74 »

smoldesu wrote: post #309
scarface_74 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I’m sure Apple and Google are secretly conspiring to overthrow the government.

If they didn't both manufacture spyware for the NSA already, they might be more willing to act out.

We have seen plenty of third party companies that have found 0 day vulnerabilities in both iOS and Android and sold the capability to nation states and law enforcement.

Why do you think that the NSA needs Apple and Google’s help?

But isn’t that a reason to be more concerned about government power and not try to give the government power?

Google spies on you and targets ads. The government has the power to arrest you and send you to black sites and cause you all sorts of harm if you go against its interest. This isn’t a conspiracy theory, it’s a publicized fact that the government went after MLK for upsetting the status quo and did wiretaps.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#322

Post by scarface_74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #320
scarface_74 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every single market, the people who an afford iPhones, overwhelmingly by them. You see the same in the EU and especially China.

That is why they manage 20% world market share on mobile devices, and about 10% across desktop and laptop devices. Not everyone can buy a Bentley.

And the purpose of a for profit corporation is - to make a profit. Why should Apple care about going after the low end market? Only one Android maker makes any real profit - Samsung. How much of that is due to them also making some of their own components and having differentiated proprietary software that some people must like?

Again, we are getting back to the advantage of an integrated solution.

Most Android aficionados think that the Pixels are the best Android phones - another integrated product

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#323

Post by scarface_74 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #319
scarface_74 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every single market, the people who an afford iPhones, overwhelmingly by them. You see the same in the EU and especially China.

That's a fantastic random fact that has absolutely no bearing on the point I made.

It’s not a “fantastic random fact”. It’s not America that has a weird fascination with Apple products. People with money who can afford to buy a better integrated product - choose to buy one.

The reason Apple products are more popular in the US is partially because people in the US have higher incomes and in the US, because if 0% interest payment plans and carrier subsidies, they are more affordable.

When people can, they buy the integrated product instead of worrying about some theoretical “freedoms” or running Linux on the Apple Pencil

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#324

Post by PrimeMcFly »

scarface_74 wrote: post #323
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fantastic random fact that has absolutely no bearing on the point I made.

It’s not a “fantastic random fact”. It’s not America that has a weird fascination with Apple products. People with money who can afford to buy a better integrated product - choose to buy one. The reason Apple products are more popular in the US is partially because people in the US have higher incomes and in the US, because if 0% interest payment plans and carrier subsidies, they are more affordable. When people can,…

Yeah, it was a random fact. Had no bearing on the point I made or the discussion with the other poster I was having.

Everything you've just said above is nonsense. People in the US have significantly lower incomes on average then most other western countries. You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. At all. Yet you feel the need to insert yourself into every conversation.

I won't be replying to you again, and by gods how I wish HN had a block function for people like you.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#325

Post by loup-vaillant »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #210
loup-vaillant wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that you cannot make a hard distinction between hardware and software. An Intel CPU simply isn't going to run without microcode, and having to get rid of microcode would easily set back chip design by a decade. Yes you can make the distinction, and no it doesn't require getting rid of the microcode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37731829 Simply put, if the microcode can be updated by the user…

Can you imagine the nightmare alternate universe of waking up to hear that Rowhammer is raging uncontrolled in the world, and the only way to fix it is to either return a data center full of affected products to the manufacturer or pay a specialist (who would probably be booked out for a long time to come) to come onsite?

Last I checked Rowhammer is raging uncontrolled in the world, and the only way to fix it is to swap the RAM with something that actually works. I’m not aware of any configurable firmware residing on RAM chips.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#326

Post by scarface_74 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #324
scarface_74 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a “fantastic random fact”. It’s not America that has a weird fascination with Apple products. People with money who can afford to buy a better integrated product - choose to buy one. The reason Apple products are more popular in the US is partially because people in the US have higher incomes and in the US, because if 0% interest payment plans and carrier subsidies, they are more affordable. When people can,…

Yeah, it was a random fact. Had no bearing on the point I made or the discussion with the other poster I was having. Everything you've just said above is nonsense. People in the US have significantly lower incomes on average then most other western countries. You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. At all. Yet you feel the need to insert yourself into every conversation. I won't be replying to you ag…

The US has the fifth highest income in the world

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

You mean people like me who have facts on their side?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#327

Post by donkeybeer »

scarface_74 wrote: post #314
smoldesu wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get that with or without Apple technology. There's not a single 'gotcha' you've named yet. Furthermore, Apple's integrated solution quite literally depends on the Open standard of Bluetooth to operate. Whether or not you consider it a bad thing, quite obviously the integration and open solution both work fine alongside one another.

I didn’t say there were “some gotchas” the person defending the open standards did https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37733315 Yes and the phone also depends on standards when it comes to electricity. The fact is that Apple’s work on top of the standard provide a more robust more user friendly implementation.

Please answer the sibling question above, what is the difficulty in answering such a simple, clearly stated question? Why are you refusing to answer that and trying to change the topic each time?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#328

Post by loup-vaillant »

robertlagrant wrote: post #263
loup-vaillant wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen to any pro-gun advocate: the goal is not to kill the bad guy, the goal is to stop the bad guy… though unfortunately sometimes this means reducing their blood pressure to zero. The law as I propose it would not legally force Apple to split. They would have 3 alternatives: stop selling software, stop selling hardware, or split. They could fire half the company, but we all know what they would actually do. Same d…

But how would that actually work? Two companies have an agreement to work together and share specs between themselves?

Actually no that would defeat the point. There are a couple thing we need to do beyond separating hardware and software: the first is forbidding NDAs around hardware interfaces. If you sell hardware to someone, you cannot force them not to publish the manual.

The second is an interoperability mandate: reproducing the functionality of existing hardware (a CPU ISA, a GPU clone…) must be authorized, and all relevant copyright and patents ignored.

This doesn’t mean that we would end all partnerships. The hardware company can still send prototypes to the software company, so driver development can begin before the hardware gets production-ready. That kind of workflow is common today.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#329

Post by PrimeMcFly »

scarface_74 wrote: post #326
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was a random fact. Had no bearing on the point I made or the discussion with the other poster I was having. Everything you've just said above is nonsense. People in the US have significantly lower incomes on average then most other western countries. You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. At all. Yet you feel the need to insert yourself into every conversation. I won't be replying to you ag…

The US has the fifth highest income in the world https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in... You mean people like me who have facts on their side?

You don't have facts, just excessive devotion to Apple.

The US might have the 5th highest income, but I said people in the US don't have higher incomes than other western countries on average.

The US has a crazy skewed income disparity. It's an extreme minority making high incomes, and it certainly doesn't support your rather baseless argument.

No, the reason people in the US have much more of an Apple fixation than other countries is because Apple is seen as an elite/luxury item, and due to cultural reasons everyone wants to be seen as being able to afford/own that, even when there is no truth to it. Same reason some people pay ridiculous amounts for Balenciaga t-shirts.

OK, now I'm done.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#330

Post by loup-vaillant »

tbrownaw wrote: post #204
loup-vaillant wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microcode can be non-configurable. I'm willing to sacrifice the business model of game consoles. I hate OEM deals, it just propagates the current monopolies and oligopolies. I'm okay with forcing everyone to buy their phone or laptop separately from the OS.

> Microcode can be non-configurable. Some of the Spectre bugs were patched via microcode. That seems like a rather useful ability to have.

It is a useful ability, and I’m still willing to sacrifice it. I’m afraid that allowing updatable firmware to be part of the hardware will just allow hardware companies to get sloppy, not to mention the freedom we could lose if that firmware is proprietary. If hardware is (by law) immutable, then it’s pretty clear it’d better work from day one. No last minute patch, it has to work, or it won’t sell.

This will drive up the costs, as well as the selling price, but if it means hardware will work out of the box more often than it does now I’m willing to pay that cost.

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