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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#301

Post by stainablesteel »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #206
stainablesteel wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting premise, but i ultimately think this would be worse for the tech by forcing them to play in a limited playing field that doesn't have parallel in other businesses, does it?

Oh but it does have parallel in other businesses. Splitting oil companies being one of the oldest examples. Rockefeller reportedly became richer as a result, so it wasn't even a socialist move. Another feature of forbidding vertical integration is that is prevents companies from competing with their own customers.

i don't think your examples are great examples

but i immediately disagreed with myself after posting because i don't think hospitals can make their own drugs. or rather, if a drug manufacturer owned a hospital and a health insurance company this might be considered a conflict of interest

i still don't think its a great example given this one comes from an ethical basis but this is more apt

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#302

Post by PrimeMcFly »

scarface_74 wrote: post #297
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've already said I'm not bothering to put effort into any reply to you. Yet you keep replying. You can find models that compete with Macbook air on the vendor homepages.It's truly ridiculous to think Your Mac is the top of the top tier laptops available when it comes to balancing performance and battery. Believe whatever you want to buddy.

And still no evidence…

And still you reply...

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#303

Post by PrimeMcFly »

pjmlp wrote: post #293
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many people are just loyal to Apple even when it doesn't make sense. There was a time when PCs started having vastly better graphics cards, and Adobe started prioritizing development for PCs, but still graphic designers were buying Apple because 'it's what creatives use'.

You see this on the last bastion of people still hoping that Mac Pro desktop makes a proper comeback, instead of a Mac Studio in a bigger case. Creatives buying Apple has always been mostly a North American phenomen, in Europe Apple only started being market relevant after the NeXT reverse acquisition, with iPod and iMacs rescuing it from insolvency.

Yeah the US has a weird fascination with Apple in particular. Just look at iphone users looking down on Android users because their text messages come as green instead of blue.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#304

Post by smoldesu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #296
donkeybeer wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you gain from it remaining closed? Why are you so defensive about the idea of Apple being forced to open it up? Are you an Apple employee or do you have Apple stocks or is there any other reason? You lose literally nothing and gain lots from them being opened up. I don't care about any "trouble" Apple has with it because I am not Apple. I am a person who thinks of his needs first, just as Apple is an entity t…

Well, the first thing I gain is a non shitty way of using Bluetooth headphones without “some gotchas”.

You get that with or without Apple technology. There's not a single 'gotcha' you've named yet.

Furthermore, Apple's integrated solution quite literally depends on the Open standard of Bluetooth to operate. Whether or not you consider it a bad thing, quite obviously the integration and open solution both work fine alongside one another.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#305

Post by thomastjeffery »

scarface_74 wrote: post #211
thomastjeffery wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How in the world is your everyday experience "better" today as a result of Apple's vertical integration? Spoiler: it isn't.

Really? I have a silent fanless MacBook Air running an Apple designed chip, with an Apple written OS where I can move my cursor between it and my iPad sitting right besides it and my keyboard and mouse can control both seanlessly. It also gets 16 hours of battery life. And then I have a Windows laptop with piss poor battery life, sounds like a 747 at idle and runs hot enough that if I actually put it in my lap , it w…

Apple would still be able to do all of that.

The main reason Windows sucks is that Windows sucks. No specialized hardware can change that. The second reason is that hardware manufacturers make shitty drivers; because it shouldn't be their job in the first place.

And why is OS X so good? They scrapped the original MacOS, and started fresh with a fork of BSD. None of that has anything to do with monopolizing hardware.

It's also absurd to compare Apple's limited selection of exclusively flagship devices against every existing Android device. Compare them with their direct competition, and your point is moot.

If Apple's hardware division was broken off into a separate company, Apple's software division would be able to do everything they do today as a customer of that hardware company. The only difference would be that everyone else could too.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#306

Post by smoldesu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #255
smoldesu wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite literally, the only point you have made is that iCloud can store Bluetooth MAC addresses across devices. > No one cares about how it’s done . Some markets do: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A... Next though, you'll tell me that those democratically elected officials aren't "people", and are more profit-motivated than a business. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose.

Again, why do I care why it happens. Your “open” standards leads to a shittier experience. > Next though, you'll tell me that those democratically elected officials aren't "people", and are more profit-motivated than a business. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose It’s cute that you think politicians represent “the people” considering how PACs work or that you think they are “democratically” elected consider…

> Again, why do I care why it happens. Your “open” standards leads to a shittier experience.

Again, why do you? Apple's products have worked just fine implimenting open standards (eg. HTML, TLS, AES, RSA, etc.). You could easily argue that the iPhone wouldn't be popular without open standards like Bluetooth and the Internet.

> It’s cute that you think politicians represent “the people”

Does the unregulated market represent it any better? I'd rather let gerrymandered electors regulate the market than allow the market to regulate itself.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#307

Post by thomastjeffery »

kanbara wrote: post #271
thomastjeffery wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course your hardware would come with software installed! That software would simply be written by a separate company. We already do this! HP didn't write Windows, but they sure as hell sell laptops with Windows preinstalled.

vendor sw (hp, samsung, htc, gateway, dell) is some of the worst sw i’ve ever experienced. i want safari, mail, and messages tyvm

Vendor software is the result of hardware companies attempting vertical integration.

Get rid of vertical integration, and the software job will be given to someone capable.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#308

Post by smoldesu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #243
smoldesu wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thought experiment, grab a random USB C cable, now tell me Oh, easy. Apple already solved this one; if it has the Thunderbolt logo, it's maxed out. If it's anything else, you're usually getting at least 5w charging and USB 2.0 speeds. In other words, the worst-case scenario is usually slightly better than Lightning.

It’s not that simple. A cable has to support video which is separate from the speed. So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I’m slightly trolling. I have these…. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB I travel with a portable monitor that gets power and video from one USB-c cable. It works with both my personal MacBook Air and my w…

> So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss.

I was hoping you'd bite the hook, but not like this...

Intel actually designed the spec, drivers and IC controllers for Thunderbolt. Apple consulted on it with USB-IF, but they don't own the spec like they do with Lightning. They're less of a new boss, and more subsuming their rightful position as a valued consultant on a shared standard. It's a good (albeit old) example of Apple doing the right thing through the right channels.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#309

Post by smoldesu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #253
smoldesu wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s also naiveté to think that government power isn’t the most dangerous kind of power imaginable That's only true if the market isn't free. If private businesses are not kept in check, they can (and have) overthrown government power. Ask me how I know!

Yes I’m sure Apple and Google are secretly conspiring to overthrow the government.

If they didn't both manufacture spyware for the NSA already, they might be more willing to act out.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#310

Post by scarface_74 »

smoldesu wrote: post #308
scarface_74 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that simple. A cable has to support video which is separate from the speed. So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I’m slightly trolling. I have these…. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093YVRHMB I travel with a portable monitor that gets power and video from one USB-c cable. It works with both my personal MacBook Air and my w…

> So your solution to making sure that you get the most compatibility is to buy Apple cables for Apple devices…meet the new boss. I was hoping you'd bite the hook, but not like this... Intel actually designed the spec, drivers and IC controllers for Thunderbolt. Apple consulted on it with USB-IF, but they don't own the spec like they do with Lightning. They're less of a new boss, and more subsuming their rightful pos…

If you look at the origins of Thunderbolt, it was designed by Intel and Apple. Apple is very much in the patent pool for Thunderbolt.
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